The leading wicket-taker in First-Class cricket in the Caribbean Veerasammy Permaul has been overlooked for the West Indies first Test of the two-match series against India, starting July 12 in Windsor Park, Dominica.

Cricket West Indies on Friday announced the squad selected by the Desmond Haynes-led panel, and left-arm spinner Permaul was a glaring omission.

The panel handed recalls to Bajan left-arm spinner Jomel Warrican and Leeward Islands all-rounder Rahkeem Cornwall.

Another left-arm spinner Gudakesh Motie was unavailable for selection as he is undergoing rehabilitation from injury.

“I’m extremely disappointed,” 33-year-old Permaul told News Room Sport after being overlooked for the opening match of the series.

“I have been playing my heart out in regional cricket just to make it back to the top. I have been performing with ball and bat, and still, that isn’t enough.

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In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

switch nationalities and add an e, i and r to every word.....bridgetown instead of berbice

It seems real..Warrican has nothing over Permaul. A different story with Jimbo.

Sadly, Permaul is the Nikita Miller of his time.

What more does he have to do?

Change His Passport!!

Sadly he's just not international standard

Cornnwall bowls more aggressive and can give some runs down the order

Warrican and permaul ain't that big of a change, they have almost identical stats

But based on how both bowl, permaul looks less consistent in terms of holding an end down

In reply to imusic

this is how people's carriers are destroyed and ultimately WI cricket, look at the other countries and the patience they have shown with spinners, what Warican has ever done
to merit selection, yet people say we do not use the past players to the benefit of WI cricket, when, all that these people do, is to destroy WI cricket as administrators
case in point a Clung like Desmond Haines

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Dukes don’t like you sah and no listens to puncheon boy- I apologize

In reply to solidrock

Jimbo has a bigger belly

In reply to conman
How is Permaul over Warrican or vice-versa is no big of a change if FC cricket is the primary basis on which test teams are chosen and Permaul's FC performance is patently better?

Got to hand it to Warrican though. He realized early on what he needed to do to be “recognized” in regional cricket and did just that.

Blackwood saw it too and took a not too dissimilar route. Similar results.

Permaul is right to be disappointed. I would not have gone for either but I think that when they have played together, Permaul has better figures than Warrican and of course he has better FC figures than Warrian. Yet another mystery that one day Hon Haynes will explain (or ask a third party like Brathwaite to explain, which appears to be his style)

Change your passport picture.

In reply to conman

Permaul didn't take a fiver vs sri lanka at galle? warrican doh have a five wicket haul and i have made my thought's about cornwall's fitness clear already.

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
Based on his recent test record he deserves selection

In reply to Baje

Who he?

In reply to bird
Which spinners have a better first class strike rate than Warrican

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

also....his career struggles can partially be attributed to holder, who unfortunately was his captain for the majority of his career and does not know how to set a field for a spinner.....any spinner.

In reply to imusic
Permaul has 13 wickets in his last two matches. That is high productivity

Warrican is the cappo's pick....bajan cappos must be surrounded by bajans...the more the merrier...Dr Selector happily obliged.

Permy my boy...nothing more you can do...looks like the GCB has abandoned you as well....okay you are Berbician...crapaud smoke yuh pipe then

Plain and simple learn to do something diferent look to spin the ball more develop a carron ball get more vatiations .he just want to be the ssme bowler and expect diferent results at the international level.

In reply to velo

And other spinners like Warrican have been doing that?

Why didnt Warrican play in the tri series?....was the Dr Selector hiding him so he could be sprung in the test squad as some trump card?

In reply to Jumpstart

That too!

Don't get an honest chance to show your worth.

Guess what? Karma is a Bitch.

I really don't understand ppl gripe, is 2 similar bowlers in terms of technique and results
Supposedly warrican gets good dip when he's performing well, I dono what permaul brings to the table, neither are really anything to write home about and both of them will have short intentional careers, moti is younger and better and it seems they're molding cariah as a leggie option

Warrican seems like a holding position pick

In reply to conman

Warrican and permaul ain't that big of a change, they have almost identical stats

Please post these identical stats so we can give the lie to your moniker.

Well unfortunately it’s pretty obvious

Jomel Warrican was born in St. Vincent
Kishore Shallow is from St. Vincent

Jomel Warrican plays for Barbados
Kraigg Brathwaite plays for Barbadoes

There goes that pesky insularity and nepotism in WI cricket again!!!

When will it end!!!

In reply to WIfan26

Would it make a difference if Warrican wasn’t born in St. Vincent?

In reply to Dukes
Mannnnn

Just go to a stats site and check

One get 9 match with 31 wicket at a 38 average,3.35 econ with a 68Sr
The other 13 with 41 wicket 35 average, 3.21 econ and a 65.7 sr

In reply to sudden

Lets take a look

Andre Coley
Rayon Griffith
Vs.
Deceptive Haynes
Rasshole Butcher

Now in comes Shallow to break the tie!!!

In reply to WIfan26

where the coach lives?

In reply to WIfan26

Oh I see

In reply to conman

Are you a big idiot?

In reply to Barry

No, a small idiot

Why do you ask?

In reply to Dukes

Will the real conman please stand.

In reply to conman

There are huge idiots in Canada

Should have taken up pace bowling……

There are no world class spinners in the Caribbean, players like chase and Cornwall would get my nod because they can bat a bit and provide relief when the pace bowlers get tired

In reply to hawk

Chase can bat???

In reply to imusic


Both him and Cornwall…they can bat *A BIT* and far more accomplished than permaul

It seems to me that the COS needs to be asked a simple question.

Does the Selection Committee believe the in all their deliberations and subsequent selections that they picked the best possible team from all the available players with the express intention to give the West Indies the best chance of winning games.

After he answers the question in the affirmative as he must I would then grill him with specific questions and comparable stats for players.
MAAN it would be a MASSACRE.

His defense lawyer Sudden will really earn his attorney fees!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In reply to Dukes

Dukes, we are not taking any questions at this juncture but I will say this, the selection process is a team effort

In reply to hawk

England decided to dump their best wicketkeeper Foakes in order to play Jonny Bairstow who is not a test class wicketkeeper but recently a very successful attacking batsman.
The result was that Bairstow dropped an extraordinary amount of catches and to add insult to injury failed with the bat.

In picking Roston Chase you run the risk of not only his innocuous slow bowling going for more than 4 runs per over but he fails with the bat thus your jackass of all trades ends up being the master of none.

I think you should pick your best 6 batsmen,your best 4 bowlers and your best wicketkeeper

In reply to Dukes
What do you base your best on?

In reply to sudden

BOBO seh leff he name out of allyuh story. Anybody call he name and dem wood haffi talk to he lawyer, MAM who he seh is de youngest ever QC in Bim for a reason!!!!

In reply to Dukes

I was speaking purely in terms of selecting a spinner and the permaul context, and not team selection per se, I am not even a fan of playing spinners as we have none around who are in my opinion world class

Also I don’t concern myself too much with who others countries select. Don’t know who is better foakes or Bairstow. But I do hope they play the lesser one when they play us next

But you are right
Always your best 6 batsmen, best wicketkeeper, 4 best bowlers none of whom are spin bowlers

Hence my initial remark …permaul was better off trying his hand at Pace bowling

In reply to Dukes

Well that dun me becos I fraid MAN uh meant MAM

Our first class competition is just a waste of time as Desmond Haynes and his Bajan selectors know exactly who they want on the West Indies team whether they perform or not. Permaul has been one of our leading wicket takers but he has hardly been give a good run. Then we have Desmond Haynes embarrassing us with Raymond Riefer who bats at # 8 for Barbados but some how Haynes has him as our number 3 batsman despite Bravo and young Arthanaze topped the batting average while Raymond Riefer could only score telephone numbers. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised that Brathwaite and his Bajan selectors play Riefer in Dominica ahead of Arthanaze. Man I am getting to dislike West Indies cricket

In reply to Sylobaby

That assness was initiated by Phil Simmons when he was head coach.

Haynes is simply reinforcing that asininity.

In reply to imusic

Thanks JAH our football coach nuh stay sub!

Got no problem with them not selecting Permaul... But why Warrican? He is just as useless.

Maybe they could have gone with the young Jamaican leggie... Mansingh.

Where is Ramnaresh to sound off when the situation warrants?

In reply to imusic

You fans look at what you want to see, and not facts.
In the last 2 years Reifer playing as a batsman for Pride, has an average regional average of 49.
Just saying
Everyone is attacking the selectors on player you dislike, not looking at facts.
If any of these youngsters can be selected from the Headley/Weeks 3 team competition, why can't Reifer be selected?

Worrican is an undeserved picked based on stats. But stats alone does not merit selection. Insulariry trumps stats.

In reply to buds
It is good to hear from Permaul and his fans.
The last tour to England, the COS said he did not need spinners in England, but took a Chase and a heavy weight boxer.
You want to talk of Insularity.
Permaul was in the wilderness for some time, voiceless, not a word from his fans, until he had the guts to speak out.

In reply to openning

Reifer averaged 49 for Barbados in the 2021/2022 FC season... He did not bat at #3 in all of the matches. When Brooks was available he batted at #4 & 5.

The season was also just 5 matches... He did not play a match for Bim in the 2022/2023 FC season.

In reply to anthonyp
Are you saying 4&5 are not batting positions?
West Indies at present need middle order batsman, apart from Kraigg and Tage, the tail begin to wag from #3, until Josh get to the wicket.
We all then have pray, that one of the openers is still batting, when Josh comes to the crease.

In reply to openning

This is not now.


Benn over Jaggernath
Nurse over Miller
Moseley over Devon Smith
Reifer over Hetmeyer
Chase over anybody

In reply to imusic
Barbados over T&T.
End of story.
Thank god for BCL, or not allyuh will be like the Windwards, still searching for a great.

In reply to imusic

Benn was a fighter, and one of UB players


The only Nurse, is Seymour

Ezra Moseley was a fast bowler

A former COS said, Hetty seem to like watching other people bat, was Floyd was selected over Hetty?
there is not different in Raymon the allrounder and Hetty fc average.

Is Chase not better or equal to your best Barbadian?

I am quite sure you believe Sir Carl was a great batsman.

In reply to Jumpstart

Like Bishoo who bowled a long hop or a full toss in every over.
Neither Permaul or Warrican should be playing not good enough at the test level.
BTW I am not sure that Permaul played much under Holder if at all.

In reply to imusic

I am glad that you pointed out the pattern of inferior players playing over more talented players due to island of origin which has helped in the demise of West Indies cricket. Then to add insult to injury selectors are willing to play an already failed test player with a 25.0 test average and who supposedly bats at #3 for WI but couldn’t buy runs or wickets against an A-team, to play over two young players who dominated the batting against said A-team and looked head and shoulder as batsmen, above said so-called WI #3 batsman. Insularity is killing WI cricket and the lack of oversight and accountability.

In reply to openning

Are you senile now????
I would just say his fans TIRED of this fcuking nonsense going on for years.....we now expect this to happen....as we have become immune to this
On this board I have challenged this shit for years....

In reply to openning

I cannot understand the selection of Worrican over Permaul? I think they both are mediocre but, why so blatant with the insularity? At least try and disguise it. Cho!!

In reply to imusic

For those who don’t know, what are you alluding to?

In reply to WIfan26

This is why I stopped watching West Indian cricket since Gayle retired. Too much shenanigans, insularity, favoritism, colorism and all the isms. Allyuh need to check yuhself over this bs. They been doing this to Hooper, Lara, Sarwan, Shiv and all the others. West Indies cricket is one big forkane joke.

The RIDICULOUS CASE OF WARRICAN OVER PERMAUL.

I will set out a series of facts which CAN NOT BE DISPUTED and they reveal what amounts to GROSS NEGLIGENCE/INCOMPETENCE AT BEST

Let me start off with a few stipulations and things that can be universally accepted

1.Neither Warrican nor Permaul are outstanding, Internationally acclaimed Left arm spin bowlers.

2. As a result of the above both were excluded from the last couple of test series played by the West Indies.

3.The last test match played by Warrican happens to be the only test match that both Warrican and Permaul played together.

4.It is patently obvious who bowled better in the above match, with Permaul taking 8 wickets and Warrican taking 4.

5.The selection committee headed by the current incumbents seemed to agree with my assessment of # 4 since they selected Permaul in 2 subsequent test matches and Warrican in none.

6.The last couple of test series featured neither Warrican nor Permaul who therefore needed to do well in first class cricket in order to stake a claim for re-instatement to the test squad.

7.It is reasonable to assume that good performances in the WI Championship first class competition could cause selection to either Team Weekes or Team Headley.

8.It is also reasonable to assume that good performances for Team Headley or Team Weekes could cause selection for the Bangladesh A team tour.

9.In the WI Championship,Permaul played 5 matches and took 28 wickets at 15.21 apiece and an ER of 2.24 and SR of 40.6

10.In the Wi Championship Warrican played 2 matches and took 8 wickets at 23.75 apiece and an ER of 2.02 and SR of 70.5

11.Permaul played in the Headley/Weekes series but Warrican did not for OBVIOUS REASONS

12.Permaul in his 2 matches in the Headley/Weekes series took 8 wickets at 17.75 apiece and an ER of 2.07 and SR of 41.2

13.Permaul played 1 match on the Bangladesh A tour but Warrican did not since presumably he did not merit selection for the Headley/Weekes series he was ineligible for consideration.

I will now wait for a rebuttal in those schooled in defending the INDEFENSIBLE.

I have heard specious arguments which state that they are all mediocre so it does not matter which in reality is a tacit admission that the selection is wrong capricious and lacking in fundamental fairness and could be construed as discriminatory.

In reply to Dukes

The on thing you missed, the GCB is making it easy to overlook players from Guyana. Tell the GCB to stop the discrimination at home, and maybe they wouldn't see their players discriminated against.

In reply to imusic


Chase has 5 tons, how many WI has that many in the last 20 years.

In reply to tc1

Of more relevance since January 2020 Chase has played 17 test matches and in 32 completed innings has scored 570 runs at an average of 17.81

In reply to Larr Pullo

Stay focused.Introducing other areas of nonsense merely distracts from the points at hand

In reply to buds

ray charles seeing dat.

In reply to Dukes


Of all the stats you quote, you omitted the test stats, therefore your analysis is incomplete and fail to the MB a complete snap shot of the players performance.

In reply to Dukes

You keep stat watching and see if that will get you anywhere. Neither of them are any good, but other issues, but like I said, go on through with your stat watching.

In reply to openning

You are guilty of looking at what you want to see as well because you ignore what Reifer did during the Headley Weekes series as well as the Bangladesh A series THIS YEAR which is more recent than his exploits for the Pride last year and arguably a higher standard.
You constantly talk about everybody else judging players on a very small sample size yet you do just that for Reifer.As Anthony P pointed out when Brooks,Chase and Hope are in the Bim team Reifer does not bat # 3.

In reply to Larr Pullo

So why not use stats as the tiebreaker, they bowl to the same batsmen?

In reply to tc1

Very weak argument!!!!!

Permaul's last test match he took 5 wickets which was more than all the other WI bowlers.

In reply to Larr Pullo

That is the kind of thinking that excuses discriminatory practices.Since none of therm are world class you can pick anybody using that justification
If your moral compass allows that then fine and it explains why in the Caribbean,
People only object to discrimination when it negatively impacts them. They are quite happy to discriminate against others as they go about their daily lives.

In reply to Dukes

Permaul has one test wicket 5fer and no other returns of note
Warrican has 4 4fers

We really picking slim on permauls career

In reply to conman

Your comment that Warrican should be selected because he has four 4 fers as opposed to Permaul's one is as ridiculous as saying that because Daren Bravo has 8 test tons and Chase 5 test tons, they should play test cricket for the West Indies in perpetuity since the other middle order batsmen do not have those amounts of test tons.

In reply to Dukes

So why bring up permauls test 5fer?

And u saying there are other reasons to pick somebody besides their results?

In reply to conman

The CONTEXT

I pointed out that Permaul and Warrican only played a solitary test match together and it happened to be Warrican's last test match.
Now if you want to address any or all of the bullett points I made you are most welcome to do so.

In reply to Dukes

Unnecessary

Why is it who played better when they played together a measure?

Especially on such a small sample size

In reply to conman
I am not a Reifer clan fan, but I will defend his selection.
If you can pick players from one or two food performance, a player having a 49 average in the last year, I will defend.

In reply to openning

Unlike most on here I don't buy into the whole performance means automatic selection/consideration

Team sports require the right fit, and the "best" ain't always right fit

In reply to openning

The 49 average that you keep touting is for the 2021/2022 season... Thats more than a year ago. He did not play in the last season.

Why not use the Bangladesh A series, which was recent? He played three matches and averaged 29 with the bat.

Link

In reply to Dukes


Post the test performances of the respective bowlers so that the Mb to see the performance over their test careers, you cannot select some stats from their careers and omit their overall performance.

In reply to tc1

Unless and until you rebut the reasoning used in my post I will post no stats.You guys must learn in any sensible discussion you must rebut the points made BEFORE any points you may make can be brought into the discussion.You have made absolutely no points for discussion.Instead you are attempting to send me on a wild goose chase of posting more stats.I made several LOGICAL and UNREBUTTABLE points that NOBODY has addressed.

In reply to conman

IT WAS THE MOST RECENT TEST PLAYED BY WARRICAN!!!!!

Warrican was then dropped. It is reasonable to expect that he could only be recalled based on performances since his last test match.Is that not logical?????

BTW that was a rhetorical question!!!!!

In reply to anthonyp
I already posted my reason why.
The player fans want to drop, are some of the players fans wanted to be selected a year ago, this have been the same doing for the last 25 years.
You guys are not learning, you pick them, you drop them.
I have no problem with players development, but we have no experience players for a player like Athanaze to learn from, he is in the wilderness, all on his own.
A couple of tours later if not performing, he will be kick to the curve, that what you guys do.
BTW, I think the Headley/Weekes three matches was a farce, you either play a full season, or include a development squad into he competition.
What is three games going to prove?

In reply to Dukes

Sir Dukes how yuh guh tell dem man it unrebuttabable and expect dem to give a rebuttal dem nah gah start mek shit up

In reply to Dukes

U under the impression that I am pro warrican, I am pro neither
2 mediocre left arm slow bowlers with similar stats, they both showed reasons to not be picked in the past, if the team feels that warrican is a better fit, so be it, the best pick is most likely Cornwall anyways

In reply to WIfan26

I might think it is UNREBUTTABLE but maybe thru some divine inspiration they may come up with a great rebuttal to all my points and I would then concede they are correct.

In reply to conman

U R doing EXACTLY what I said people will do.
You can not justify a selection so you say they are all mediocre so it does not matter who they pick THAT IS BESIDES THE POINT.

That gives the selectors carte blanche to pick whomever they feel like picking IRREGARDLESS of PERFORMANCE.

In reply to Dukes

You post stats on a regular basis, but on this occasion, you omitted the test performance of the players. I am not here rebutting your analysis but to point out you have omitted their test performances in the stats. Both players have performed marginally, and the test stats should consider in your analysis.

In reply to conman




I agree with you that both are weak spinners, however Warrican performed better in the test area. At the regional level is dead heat.

In reply to tc1

I post the 2 test stats already, per Dukes request, still waiting on a response

In reply to tc1

I would bet on warricans consistency to at least hold up an end more than permaul
Permaul action got too much going on for somebody that don't really turn the ball

In reply to tc1

I STARTED OFF by saying essentially that they are both mediocre. in test cricket.

At the end of the day, in the absence of Motie they had to find a left arm spinner so in my opinion you pick the one who is better. The fact that neither of them were incumbent, meant the since their last test match, you look at what they have done nat the lower level
If somebody is dropped from a team, common sense dictates that they must do something after to warrant a recall.
It is that FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH that neither you nor anybody on this board will struggle to answer.
What has Warrican done since his last test match to justify a recall?

Do you think the COS can answer that question

In reply to Dukes

Warricans last fc match he got 6 wicket
Permaul had 3 in his last, bowling 22 overs and failing to get a wicket on the last day

In reply to conman

Having done the research on Warrican's last first class match, you would have noticed that 4 of the 6 batsmen he dismissed were tail enders.Ryan John and Sherman Lewis fast bowlers and Larry Edward-Slow left arm orthodox and Kenneth Dember off break.This performance did not seem good enough to get Warrican selected to play in the Headley Weekes series nor in the Bangladesh A series BY THE SAME DESMOND HAYNES SELECTION TEAM.

In reply to Dukes

And?
2 mediocre spinners doing mediocre things
The least mediocre at the moment get selected

I don't see the issue

Can y'all help a brother out? List some things that Permaul could do!

In reply to XDFIX

Nikita Miller would tell him that there is nothing he can do to appease insularity as CWI continues to destroy cricket as a sport in the region. Might as well, Barbados just go it alone! Why utilize CWI resources to pursue the same objectives? You guys are not fooling anyone.

In reply to Slipfeeler


What is WIPA doing, just collecting union dues? Contract work is a bitch!

Permaul one thing that you could do is to go play for USA, bookmark this that by the next tournament USA will beat West Indies. Based on logical reasoning that while other teams are using their best players we are consistently not, so it’s inevitable. Remember that WI only beat USA by 39 runs.

In reply to Slipfeeler


Is age on his side?

The next person to defect will be Sherfane Rutherford.He is only 25 years old and will probably turn out for the USA next year.

In reply to Dukes

You’re absolutely right re Sherfane man basically lives in NY!!!