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Roberts sees no benefits in Sammy being named Test head coach

Legendary West Indies fast bowler, Sir Andy Roberts does not believe the appointment of Daren Sammy as head coach of the Test team will result in any immediate success for the regional side.On Monday during Cricket West Indies’ (CWI) quarterly press conference held in St Vincent, Director of Cricket Miles Bascombe revealed that Sammy, the white-ball head coach, would take over from current head coach of the Test side Andre Coley effective April 1, 2025.

However, speaking on Trinidadian radio station i95.5FM on Thursday, the 73-year-old, who took 202 Test wickets in just 42 matches, said there first needed to be a change in mindset by the players if the West Indies was to return to its glory days.
“Daren Sammy is one that is loved by Cricket West Indies and especially in this administration.

Sir Andy lamented the fact that despite being rooted to the bottom of the Test rankings for decades, West Indies cricket was still being run the same way.
“If you check West Indies cricket, during the years that we have been in the doldrums and today we’re still in the doldrums, but our methods stay the same as it was 15, 20 years ago and it is not a method that is associated with West Indies’ greatness,” Sir Andy maintained.
“We are living in the past as far as Australia, England, India and all of them. They are teaching us how to play cricket now and we were the ones that they were following. Now we’re the followers.”

In reply to sgtdjones

In another post I made the same point Andy is making. Our structure the problem. Past mediocre players who don't have creative minds just need to climb the ranks of their home boards then eventually "eat a food" Griffith, Bascombe, Reifer via CCC, Sammy via nepotism

So he saying sammy is a company man

In reply to velo

Don't let powen hear you say that...

In reply to velo

The baron used to call him Andy Robbers

Sammy will be declared national hero of St. Lucia next .

In reply to Brerzerk

I would give the list an approval if you had added Teflon Jimmy, but you conveniently omitted him. he has eaten well for the past 10 years.

Andy we not following them now, we should, but them man yah too blind.

In reply to sgtdjones

It's not about Sammy alone....

J.Grave--- 2017 till 2024

J.Adams---2017 till present.. Director,mentor,batting coach, assistant coach......

Reifer--- 2019 till present...Interim head coach, under-19 head coach, batting coach, assistant coach..

Sammy- 2021 till present... Independent Director, white ball coach, all formats coach.

Griffith -2019 till present... various capacities... presently fielding coach...

This administration biggest drawback,

opaque policy of recruitment...
a post holder continue without results...

Whether Sammy will succeed as test coach, is matter of future....

Sammy is clever fellow....if he cajole administrators to appoint good batting and bowling coaches, select a balance side...Sammy might succeed as test coach...

It all depends how he appoints his management team.

Modern test cricket is more analytical backroom....in olden days it was instinctive....now, most decision taken in backroom.....how batters and bowlers are coached and handled....

Just look at Sri Lanka and Pakistan..

Gillespie replaced by Aaqib Javed...same players...winning against Australia and South Africa..away....

Sri Lanka under Jayasuriya, has improved by leaps and bounds.....even there is chance of playing test Championship....

Sammy can, if he acts cleverly, clapping....

It does not matter what anyone does. Nothing can change if we continue to manage our cricket with decisions based on friends and family. There is no real attempt to change. There is no clear development plan starting from the grassroots, as it is obvious that we have to rebuuild from the cradle up.
The biggest problem is that the incompetence of the Old Boys Club who own West Indies cricket has caused Caribbean people to lose interest, maybe permanently.

In reply to Brerzerk

exactly

In reply to Onionman0

sammy unbalanced a team for the four years he was captain.

In reply to Onionman0

Sammy wasn't Miles Bascomb captain at some point in time?

In reply to tc1

Jimmy screwed up even Jamaica's cricket but
a. For most of his playing career especially pre-captaincy he wasn't a mediocre player and his pick wasn't questioned.
b. His stint at Kent gave him bonfires. Sammy had a passing role in.Pakistan not a long-term coaching gig.

In reply to Jumpstart

That's my point!!! Sammy fully understand the impact of non- deserving player in team... specially in test cricket......

Secondly, in present times....Head Coach job is very managerial in nature...
There's Batting Coach
There's Bowling Coach
There's fielding Coach
There's Analyst
There's Data man.....

If Sammy gets a good management team...He can succeed....

Remember!! 2016 World Cup......Sammy's contribution....no wicket....10 runs..... lifting cup.....
That team was world class....
Now, Sammy needs a world class backroom boys...

In reply to Onionman0

true....but he might bring pretty boy floyd, rayvon and co

Might???

In reply to natty_forever

scrap that...will

Question: Similar to football, in order to Manage/Coach at the ICC level, do you need to go through certification to earn your Badge?

In reply to Onionman0

Not to mention some world class players, see 2016 WC. lol

In reply to Brerzerk

What is your qualification, you type garbage because you want to say something, wait until you have something to say.

In reply to cricketmad

St Lucia already have the most distinguished heroes the Caribbean have ever produced. TheFirst Black person to receive a Nobel prize for their intellectual prowess, Sir Arthur Lewis 1979, then Sir Dereck Walcott, followed his footsteps in 1992. Most Nobel laureate per capita in the world.

In reply to Edrich

Where does your 'most distinguished heroes the Caribbean ever produced' leave Bob Nesta Marley, Rihanna, Usain Bolt, Sir Garfield Sobers, Marcus Garvey, Brian Lara, Vivian Richards, Mighty Sparrow, Sir Frank Worrell etc?

The 2 nobel peeps acheived however they cant beat those 'heroes' for global reach, influence and fame.

In reply to Castled[/[b]In reply to Castled

In reply to Castled

Apart from Usian Bolt, which Global award did the others receive? WhichEducate us

Andy.robert ....
When last was there are.any benefits In being a WI head coach or captain?

I don't see this as a permanent head coach situation...

Think this will be a temporary situation n Sammy will be toss.aside for a permanent head coach for all 3 formats...
WI will be getting a oversea cooch by November 2025 and we all would be like.sammy who...

Mark my word

In reply to Castled

I agree Usian Bolt was once popular, for the others, you will never hear their names mentioned anywhere in the world. Robertson Hall Auditorium in Princeton University, will always be Called ArthurLewis

In reply to Edrich

What de heck am I reading.

Who gives a dam about a Nobel prize.

Were any for cricket related matters.

Next people will type about who has the best singer / rapper/ oil reserve / GDP and such.

All irrelevant as that has nuttin to do wid cricket.

Get a dam life and stick to the cricket topic.

POST YA NOBEL PEACE PRIZES COMMENTS IN DE BACK ROOM.

SCAMMY IS AN UNQUALIFIED JOKER.
NOT QUALIFIED AS CAPPO THEN
NOW, NOT QUALIFIED AS COACH.

As born Wes Indian, I wish the team the best.
Even if de idiot Scammy gets credit.

Please stop bigging up an unqualified idiot.

In reply to tc1

In reply to Wasp

[quote]I would give the list an approval if you had added Teflon Jimmy, but you conveniently omitted him. he has eaten well for the past 10 years.[/quote

Less deserving than Floyd Reifer?

In reply to Edrich

For this comment you deserve a Nobel prize as the B.I.O.A.T. 'the biggest idiot of all time,'

In reply to Brerzerk

I never questioned Jimmy cricket status. I questioned his administrative skill and his performance as DoC.he comes across as gentleman.

[b]In reply to TanteMerle[/

You are showing ignorance when you are disrespecting Noble Laureate.
I had the honor of meeting 2 at a place where Walco stroll for many years ,it was a great honor to be in the same room as these famous men.
Please note that Derek Walcott's parents are from the rock.
caribbean people all over admire our Noble prize winners and they deserve our respect.

In reply to Edrich

You know your personal attack means nothing to me?
A discussion about WI cricket and Sammy as a beneficiary of nepotism illicit from you a boast about Nobel Laureates. What clearer sign of insecurity, inferiority complex, insularity and parochilism is there? Your stat is also confounding re "per capita. That'd be like me saying Jamaica has the most recording artistes per capita which at some point would match Red Rat with Smokey Robinson. Now, do you have anything re WI cricket admin to add to the convo?

In reply to tc1

You need to read my post again.

I had never or will never disrespect Nobel Peace Prize.

My point is that this tread is about cricket.
Nobel Peace price, Best runners, best singers etc are irrelevant to the post.
I said to post that in the backroom.
It has nothing to do with cricket.
People are deflecting to avoid the real issues.

Now respond to this and prove me wrong.

In reply to Wasp

In the meantime, Daren Sammy is the Head Coach, we the people of the Caribbean and Guyana, that leant good for West Indies cricket, wishes him success and guidance.

In reply to TanteMerle

Apologies to.you. I misread your post.

In reply to Edrich

You advocating blind allegiance while pretending blood can be milked from stone. Bob Marley wondered about those "who stand aside and look" MLK told white liberals who did nothing that they were actually supporting wrong

In reply to tc1

No problem bro. Apologies accepted.

It happens to the best of us.

Respect.

In reply to Brerzerk

You keep using that word nepotism.

You seem to lump all 'dots' into a single bucket. That is nonsense man. The nepotism argument is nonsense.

Sammy's attitude/ approach appeals to the board. He 'attempts' not to be rabidly anti-management and seems supportive of the concept of the criticality of team culture. Many CEOs have a mindset that skills can be trained, but it's harder to change character and culture.

You have some deeply rooted views because of history...but if you are honest you can see how toxic the environment was that led to some of our challenges back int he day. Look at Jumpy's utterings here..look at the shenanigans of sexitillion re Bravo after his playing day....look at the snake comment re Sarwan from CHG.

That generation had talent but IMO the team performance was not optimized. That is PROBABLY what the board sees in Sammy....someone who recognizes the importance of team culture and work ethic and clarity of roles etc etc. That is speculation on my part...but it seems a lot more logical than the nepotism argument to me.

But in the meanwhile...how is Sammy's appointment 'nepotism'. Somebody on the board is his uncle? You seem to forget the composition of the board??

In reply to Cheeks

Nice analysis....



The advertisement published by CWI......had eligibility criteria for all candidates.... with no exception clause, wherein, it was stated that a candidate can be selected beyond eligibility criteria....

Eligibility, clearly stated international experience, certificate etc.

Sammy did not have international experience or certificate...

Sammy, in fact was an independent director of CWI..

His appointment is bad in law.....

In reply to Onionman0

Hiring is much more nuanced than you make it out to be.

The paper qualifications form part of the assessment. There are other tools used to assess the right fit for the job...and some carry more weight than others. Single candidates seldom check ALL the boxes. So execs have to invariably look beyond what you see on paper. That is why you do interviews, psychometric analyses, personality type tests etc. I have seen people with only a Bsc successfully compete against pHDs for jobs. Especially when there is a heavy leadership component.

The problem is that people see Sammy as a company man and 'anti-worker' which is not true IMO, because this group of players SEEMS to interact well with him. Sadly though, some of these same folks support DJT and his band. LOL (Had to get that in. )

Darren Sammy is well liked by the administration, media, and some of the fan base.

As a coach….Darren Sammy is a conman.

In reply to imusic

You tryin to con people by stating a biased opinion as fact.

I eh really expect any different...you and Jumpy of the same school ...when allyuh hate...allyuh hate absolutely and forever.. while Sammy livin he best life.

I guess I will never understand hatred of sports figures....from the so so like Sammy, to the greats like Shiv, Lebron, Lara.

In reply to Cheeks

Your opinion is no less biased bro

In reply to imusic

Well..I posited a theory on why Sammy is apparently respected as coach by CWI...a board made up of all the CWI territories. That's not biased. I also leverage some of the challenges I have personally faced with finding the right fit to implement a strategy.

I will admit that while he's not perfect, I am very curious and intrigued by what Sammy has been able to accomplish as a leader and as a player despite his limitations. I am a fan I guess.

What I don't do is carry this long standing hate for sports figures, so much where you refuse to acknowledge facts.

Just another opinion but dat cyah be healthy.

You have a hate for DJT no?

And you rationalize that ent?

But sports figures (as you were careful to be very specific to give yourself an out) are somehow exempt?

How “healthy” are you bro?

Try as you might…..you eh no different bro.

In reply to Cheeks

I deal with individual situations, i don't know of any anti-mgt coach man, not even Simmo.
Basic attributes to do a job are Skill, Knowledge and attitude. Does Sammy have the skill and training to be an all-format coach,has he had more success than even Coley as a coach? The 1st white ball series win under Sammy's tenirecannpt be attributed to him as he took over just days before I think.
Cheeks I look at facts amalyse the. State hard truths wherever the chips fall.Depending on honest answers to my query then yes Sammy is the beneficiary of nepotism and saying nothing is supporting that.

In reply to imusic

I dont hate DJT. I just think he is a tool for an agenda that pushes racial discrimination which colored people have fought forever.

I think he is unfit for leadership based on the foregoing.

I note your attempt to conflate politics with sports though. A bit unnecessary and strange...but its your prerogative.

In reply to Brerzerk

I think you are using nepotism out of context.

You feel he is undeserving ..but I suspect that you are missing some inside info (I am also not on the inside..so ignorant of what is playing out in the boardroom)..

I am just hypothesizing based on the info I have access to and using my own judgment...but I am convinced that its not nepotism.

In reply to Cheeks

Kindly specify the jobs!!!!

BSc shall be the minimum qualification for all candidates for the job....WHO CAN APPLY...

Candidates may have higher qualifications...extra certificate...just add ons...

So, quite rightly stated....a BSc qualified candidate can get job ahead of PhD. ....by getting higher marks in presentation and interview....

Process for any recruitment...
First step.....selection of candidates, who meets minimum qualification criteria...

Second step....Among the selected candidates, sorting out candidates with extra qualification like PhD. or Job experience etc

Third... Presentation & Interview....

According to CWI advertisement....Sammy simple not eligible to apply as he doesn't have minimum qualification BSc.

Sammy fails in minimum qualification
Fails in international or other experience PhD.

Even if ,
Passes out with full marks in presentation & interview...

He cannot

Gets the job....

His selection can be challenged due to lack of due process of law....

Moreover, he was appointed as independent director of CWI, when he applied for the job....or did he resigned, when he applied for the job or he resigned after getting the job...

All actions has legal implications...

In reply to Cheeks

You said I hate Darren Sammy

I showed how you hate DJT

You claim to not hate DJT

Well I don’t hate Darren Sammy. Why should I. He never do me anything.

I don’t like his actions. Especially his manoeuvering and behaviour when he was given “special son” status by the board run by his countrymen at the time.

But that’s all in the past. He plays the role of super West Indian to the hilt. And maybe it’s genuine.

He loves the spotlight when things are going good. He freely accepts the accolades when WI win when he’s in charge.

When WI lose and things don’t go good, as they will, he’s nowhere to be found. He was pompasettin (TM Barbados) all over de region when WI were beating the likes of Uganda and PNG during the world
Cup.

When we lost to England and South Aftica……crickets. Not a peep.

This is consistent behaviour from him.

He’s in charge of the white ball team, yet deficiencies identified prior to his appointment, like reducing dot balls, batting struggling on non featherbeds, lack of penetration by the bowling unit, they’re still dead last in the game with giving up the most runs in the death overs.

It is a fact that the t20 team has improved significantly in the ICC rankings.

It’s also a fact that those victories came either against teams that are associate teams, or less than full strength teams.

But you only play who is in front of you.

The ODI team is highly unlikely to qualify for the World Cup.

In other words……..smoke and mirrors. Little substance from a cricketing standpoint.

That to me encapsulates Darren Sammy.

That doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that he has positive qualities. He seems to be a good motivator and team man.

That doesn’t make him a coach.

And now he’s given the responsibility for all 3 formats, just as he was when he was playing.

Yet you criticize those that are critical of his appointment? That eh right bro.

In reply to imusic

I am not criticizing those who are critical of his appointment. Y'all love to pull out these strawmen. I am merely offering how the CWI may have come to see him as the right strategic direction. But lets be real, you have been hating on Sammy and also Shiv and Reifer from looooooong ago..and we know why.

Your knives were out re Sammy from his VERY first 'series' with the ODI team.

You are free to to not like his style of course.

I am not sure how you expect to him 'celebrate' losses by 'pompasetting' like he would celebrate wins but hey...its the sort of irrationality that comes from hate.

In reply to Onionman0

Not wanting to get into semantics..but there is nothing against the law re applying for a job if you don't meet all the criteria.

Look, I draft job advertisements from time to time..and sometimes a candidate comes along with attributes that you didn't consider...or didn't have the foresight to include in the ad or JD etc. You are looking for rigidity in a role that needs nuance and judgment.

CEOs make calls on some positions like this all the time. Somebody brings stuff to the table that align with their agenda.

You are letting your dislike for Sammy get in the way of looking at this rationally sah.

CWI is probably thinking as follows:

1. Proven record of leadership to two worldcups ( you can't really write that into the ad or JD now )
2. Someone from the region who is young enough to relate to the modern workforce. Don't look now, but attitudes of those kids a generation or two behind us have changed significantly
3. Someone who knows a thing or two about leveraging 'so so' talent
4. An apparent above average work ethic
5. He has PROVEN to be technically astute about the game
6. Most importantly ...ability to communicate


The man has even had success in the PSL as captain..and has acquitted himself well as coach of Zalmi. That is 'international' experience. Its not just his nepotistic uncles from all the various boards around the region who have seen his value as coach.

The interview panel which mostly likely would have included representation from the board, and HR were clearly impressed.

In reply to Cheeks

Spot on.
It is EASY to identify and how Sammy’s appointment came about

In reply to Cheeks

What law I studied ...my opinion..... it's Totally beyond law to allow applications below the " minimum qualification" as stated in Advertisement.
As clearly stated by CWI, that about 20 applications were received around world.... although no names were divulged....to camouflage the exact process of recruitment...

Absolutely hypothetical.....if no application meets the minimum criteria.....

Re- Advertisement

Moreover, Sammy was Independent Director of CWI....
Whether he resigned, when he made his application
Or Resigned after he was selected....

Impropriety....
Dual interest

Taking into consideration the importance of CWI , a unique private company... representing several separate nations...

It's decision has to be transparent and can't be done as if it's Family owned private company....In reply to Cheeks



I simply dislike the CWI process of recruitment of Head Coaches....Simmons,Sammy or Coley....all appointments were without due process of law....




Well, unfortunately.... Telepathy is not the subject I am acquainted with.....just little bit of law ....CWI mind reading beyond my assessment....

Documents
Press releases
can be analysed....

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/daren-sammy-appointed-west-indies-white-ball-coach-andre-coley-to-take-charge-of-test-team-1375104





There's different set of criteria.....

https://youtu.be/SZUZfw62fEo?si=q3l5M0_KwOjyIeNx

An evasive interview....no mention of names of even 3 other applications apart from Shiv... Sammy never underwent level 3 certificate training in Antigua but got All formats job....

In reply to Onionman0

I am no lawyer and won't pretend to be. But maybe you can help me with exactly what law applies here in the context of a private business setting guidelines for and making a hiring decision.

Sammy is being USED by the current wi administration with this current appointment

Sammy....i say tread carefully

In reply to Wasp

I don't know the details and frankly I am not sure whether its the right move or not. I am just proffering my thoughts on how they may have come to the decision. If there is a more sinister agenda at play...me eh know bout dat.

In reply to Cheeks

It's so happened...I always pretend to be studying law...but it keeps changing...



Sorry...I stated I studied little law.... insufficient to quench the thirst of Sammy supporters...who are very much happy that an independent director apply for coaching job without resignation from his post...

Impropriety...Sammy posters

In reply to Cheeks

My thinking of my country mans appointment is that this is a pure money saving measure on their part..

I am wondering whether administrator seek out an oversea coach the like of Ponting...steve flaming from new Zealand or someone out there to help brid a new structure ... and Sammy could have been there as their assistant since he the white ball coach to groom since has no coaching certificates as people have appointed out.

Their many challenges ahead
It just my opinion that he is being used...but wish him the best since he has accepted their offer

Cheeks/Wasp...If
a
It is a money-saving strategy
b.appointment of someone who motivates and gels a squad please do a comparative analysis between red and white ball coaches with the following parameters.

International experience
Results since tenure as head coach
Team spirit (subjective)
Qualification.

In reply to Brerzerk

Sounds like the rationale now is Sammy either wukkin fuh same money that he made while white ball coach, just more responsibility with the test team, therefore CWI saving Coley’s salary

Or

Sammy wukkin fuh less money than Coley as the test coach thereby allowing CWI to save money.

And the kicker….now he’s a VICTIM……not a beneficiary

And Dey say West Indies have no spinners???

Let’s see what other pretzel’s Sammy defenders twist themselves into next

In reply to imusic

One of the weirdest things on this board ..well two related things really:

1. Strawman argument

2. This tendency to lump people into buckets. Especially with people from sovereign countries. Eg I have good friends from my hometown..Grenada who dont really care for Sammy..even though I am a fan. Some who loved him until the pacifiers..some who will defend him to death..ok kinda joking. The point is...stop running off into the weeds and deal with the content.

I guess is more convenient than accepting logic.

In reply to Onionman0

I am little confused about you and your knowledge of law leading to conclusions about illegality.

In reply to Cheeks

My brother I nuh Inna nuh strawman bizness.
In fact what I asked you to compare are facts based on available Empirical Data. Not only is that not a strawman argument but indeed not even fallacious

In reply to Cheeks

I’m not the one masquerading CWI cost savings and Sammy as a victim as “logic”

Not sure how you got lumping people into buckets from my posts……perhaps you projecting.

Maybe THAT’S the straw man argument you were referring to.

In reply to imusic

There you go again. Wasp suggested Sammy was a victim, not me. But in your eyes...we are all the same I guess.

In reply to Cheeks

A WEST INDIES CRICKET FAN...... with no home- boy biases..... Criticizing Cameron for appointment of Pybus, as Head Coach.... and turning around patting Shallow for Appointing Sammy "


Both appointments were bad in law.



You didn't read my above post...I clearly stated


I may add any person..who


Or a person who cannot or deliberately doesn't differentiate between family company and unique company consisting of Several nations..

Or A Person having telepathy to know what CWI thinks and post 6 points agenda...






Impropriety
Dual interest

Any report of Sammy resignation from Independent Director of CWI

At the time of applying for Head Coach job

Or

Did Sammy resign after being appointed as Head Coach

Or

Sammy still holding both posts
Independent Director
Head Coach of all formats..

All Sammy posters are requested to clarify....

Impropriety
Dual Interest
Office of Profit