debut: 2/28/04
45,110 runs
Are you telling me that players like Pooran, Russell, Lewis, Shepherd, Johnson "Ray" Charles and Rutherford made it to "The big payday," without mastering the fundamentals of the game?
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WI short on talent or short on money?
debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to black
When you talk about Kohli,Root, Williamson, Cummins,Bumrah,Rabada,Hazelhood,Rohit,Jadeja,Warner.......they learnt the fundamental of games....developed their potential to full extent....became all round players....then went on to become millionaire....
As for above-mentioned, they are one dimensional..all became millionaire.....No problem....every player should look after their career...earn well...for self and family...but these players are of different genres...
When you talk about Kohli,Root, Williamson, Cummins,Bumrah,Rabada,Hazelhood,Rohit,Jadeja,Warner.......they learnt the fundamental of games....developed their potential to full extent....became all round players....then went on to become millionaire....
Pooran, Russell, Lewis, Shepherd, Johnson "Ray" Charles and Rutherford
As for above-mentioned, they are one dimensional..all became millionaire.....No problem....every player should look after their career...earn well...for self and family...but these players are of different genres...
debut: 7/22/22
989 runs
In reply to black
It would be easier to just tell us what point it is you think you're making.
I believe that there's no crisis in West Indies cricket. The current team is pretty much where one would expect it to be. I doubt that in terms of talent or coaching it's worse than it was in the 1970s and 80s. In other words, Caribbean cricket stood still while the bigger and richer countries surpassed them in terms of finance and professionalism. There never was a golden age of the West Indies.
It would be easier to just tell us what point it is you think you're making.
I believe that there's no crisis in West Indies cricket. The current team is pretty much where one would expect it to be. I doubt that in terms of talent or coaching it's worse than it was in the 1970s and 80s. In other words, Caribbean cricket stood still while the bigger and richer countries surpassed them in terms of finance and professionalism. There never was a golden age of the West Indies.
debut: 2/28/04
45,110 runs
In reply to Onionman0
So how is it that the players you mentioned above are able to do both and are very good at both and our players cannot do the same?
Your argument does not hold true and only points to money being the biggest factor.
So how is it that the players you mentioned above are able to do both and are very good at both and our players cannot do the same?
Your argument does not hold true and only points to money being the biggest factor.
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debut: 4/28/03
60,686 runs
In reply to black
And that's the bottom line. The top 3 nations can pay their players well enough to have them when needed. Have proper cricket structures for development, Academies etc.
And that's the bottom line. The top 3 nations can pay their players well enough to have them when needed. Have proper cricket structures for development, Academies etc.
debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to natty_forever
Only top3....... South Africa playing test Championship final....their players, facing several problems....New Zealand...they just beat India in India 3-0 in test....In most white ball tournament are front runner...
Pakistan cricket severely effected by political upheavals.
West Indies, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh can be clubbed together...
Only top3....... South Africa playing test Championship final....their players, facing several problems....New Zealand...they just beat India in India 3-0 in test....In most white ball tournament are front runner...
Pakistan cricket severely effected by political upheavals.
West Indies, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh can be clubbed together...
debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to black
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-india-2024-25-1439847/india-vs-new-zealand-3rd-test-1439898/match-report
New Zealand beat India 3-0
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-india-2024-25-1439847/india-vs-new-zealand-3rd-test-1439898/match-report
New Zealand beat India 3-0
debut: 11/30/17
11,938 runs
In reply to Onionman0
those players all come from countries with a highly developed developmental structure, from colleges to international cricket. there are some territories in the WI that don't even have regular colleges cricket
When you talk about Kohli,Root, Williamson, Cummins,Bumrah,Rabada,Hazelhood,Rohit,Jadeja,Warner.......they learnt the fundamental of games....developed their potential to full extent....became all round players....then went on to become millionaire....
those players all come from countries with a highly developed developmental structure, from colleges to international cricket. there are some territories in the WI that don't even have regular colleges cricket
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debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
It's not only about development structure....the player's ability to develop their own game.....take instance of Hety and Pooran......Two of the highest paid IPL players....both in late 20... with all the resources, can they develop their potential to full and become all round players... willing to go hard way....the answer....Big No..
One may blame..CWI but looking at South Africa... racial problem...quota,playing opting to play county.... players retiring to play IPL...South Africa playing test Championship final....our players were playing CPL....their T-20 league started just.....
It's not only about development structure....the player's ability to develop their own game.....take instance of Hety and Pooran......Two of the highest paid IPL players....both in late 20... with all the resources, can they develop their potential to full and become all round players... willing to go hard way....the answer....Big No..
One may blame..CWI but looking at South Africa... racial problem...quota,playing opting to play county.... players retiring to play IPL...South Africa playing test Championship final....our players were playing CPL....their T-20 league started just.....
debut: 2/28/04
45,110 runs
By the way, I am not one of those that subscribe to the theory that these guys are one dementional and limited in their talents. I think it's the other way around. There are test players out there that could not play limited over cricket to save their lives.
debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to black
With due respect....tell me any of the above can play test cricket....the answer is No....
Those players playing test cricket.....can also play ODI barring very few.....
Most successful team has maximum all round players..
West Indies players are happy to play IPL, CPL,T-10 Dubai....earn much more than players from Pakistan, Bangladesh,Sri Lanka,South Africa but don't want to play red ball cricket....their choice....
Now, take case of South Africa players ...Markaram,Ngidi,Rabada,Trishan....all earning big in IPL, playing local south Africa red ball, these players not globe trekkers T-20.......earning less than Pooran,Hety, Shepherd....
It also depends on players.....choices...
West Indies is not a country.....they are united by their colours...Black test playing team......beating England or white team was equal to other countries nationalism..... but now situation change....
If ever West Indies break up....these very players will think twice, before refusing to play for their country... Nationalism....adverse public opinion in local community....
Pooran, Russell, Lewis, Shepherd, Johnson "Ray" Charles and Rutherford
With due respect....tell me any of the above can play test cricket....the answer is No....
Those players playing test cricket.....can also play ODI barring very few.....
Most successful team has maximum all round players..
West Indies players are happy to play IPL, CPL,T-10 Dubai....earn much more than players from Pakistan, Bangladesh,Sri Lanka,South Africa but don't want to play red ball cricket....their choice....
Now, take case of South Africa players ...Markaram,Ngidi,Rabada,Trishan....all earning big in IPL, playing local south Africa red ball, these players not globe trekkers T-20.......earning less than Pooran,Hety, Shepherd....
It also depends on players.....choices...
West Indies is not a country.....they are united by their colours...Black test playing team......beating England or white team was equal to other countries nationalism..... but now situation change....
If ever West Indies break up....these very players will think twice, before refusing to play for their country... Nationalism....adverse public opinion in local community....
debut: 3/29/07
25,049 runs
In reply to Onionman0
It comes down a lot to structure i beleive. A lot of those countries have the proper structure from grassroots all the way up to pro. And they play a lot of cricket. If toy look at SA their players earn i think just a bit more, or is it NZ, than our players domestically. Yoy now aee this present CWI body trying to put the proper structure in place to match what those counties have. As one mentioned NZ ans SA both recently played ans is butterfly playing WTC Final and they don't have the billion dollar cricket structure like the Big 3. But their player at one time or another decided to play for their home countey forego a payday or two to put their county in a position to always be on top or near the top. Our players only want to play 1 ia a ICC event or when we playing rhe big 3, in most cases. Some people talk about money money. If that was so NZ wouldn't be ranked where they are right now. They always in touching distant of a trophy and they dont have the world of money. Their players make themselves available. Look we now have Pooran options out not to play for WI, but for aure will be somewhere playing franchise cricket Ina few weeks time. Time to move on. Don't beg no one. Work with who working with you. Have the structure acaiblw to build better players get them to buy in thay the road to success may be long but if they are on it with yoy they will get there and see how it goes. I see a little bit of that in this present administration, hope they dont go messing it uo and they too thinking they are bigger than WICricket like aome players in the past.
It comes down a lot to structure i beleive. A lot of those countries have the proper structure from grassroots all the way up to pro. And they play a lot of cricket. If toy look at SA their players earn i think just a bit more, or is it NZ, than our players domestically. Yoy now aee this present CWI body trying to put the proper structure in place to match what those counties have. As one mentioned NZ ans SA both recently played ans is butterfly playing WTC Final and they don't have the billion dollar cricket structure like the Big 3. But their player at one time or another decided to play for their home countey forego a payday or two to put their county in a position to always be on top or near the top. Our players only want to play 1 ia a ICC event or when we playing rhe big 3, in most cases. Some people talk about money money. If that was so NZ wouldn't be ranked where they are right now. They always in touching distant of a trophy and they dont have the world of money. Their players make themselves available. Look we now have Pooran options out not to play for WI, but for aure will be somewhere playing franchise cricket Ina few weeks time. Time to move on. Don't beg no one. Work with who working with you. Have the structure acaiblw to build better players get them to buy in thay the road to success may be long but if they are on it with yoy they will get there and see how it goes. I see a little bit of that in this present administration, hope they dont go messing it uo and they too thinking they are bigger than WICricket like aome players in the past.
debut: 3/6/20
4,708 runs
In reply to positiveg
Absolutely.....
Addon is West Indies is not a country....a bunch of country....united by colour....once had pride beating the white , in their own game.....it used to be driving force or urge to excel....more or equally potent to nationalism.....once that eroded.... with time ....West Indies cricket became a power post amongst politicians and a stepping stone for players for IPL,BBL,PSL, T-10 Dubai.....
I repeat, if West Indies cricket break up.....these very players will play.... Public backlash, nationalism,local community pressure....
In India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,Sri Lanka players fear to return home if team lose in cricket...
In Brazil,France, Argentina, Columbia....similar fear.... football.....
That passion,emotion, craziness required to excel...
Some idiot like me watching cricket....in empty stadium or rooting in front of television, more often than not channel swap.... can't do much....but
Ramble....as rightly pointed out by Natty.....
Absolutely.....
Addon is West Indies is not a country....a bunch of country....united by colour....once had pride beating the white , in their own game.....it used to be driving force or urge to excel....more or equally potent to nationalism.....once that eroded.... with time ....West Indies cricket became a power post amongst politicians and a stepping stone for players for IPL,BBL,PSL, T-10 Dubai.....
I repeat, if West Indies cricket break up.....these very players will play.... Public backlash, nationalism,local community pressure....
In India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,Sri Lanka players fear to return home if team lose in cricket...
In Brazil,France, Argentina, Columbia....similar fear.... football.....
That passion,emotion, craziness required to excel...
Some idiot like me watching cricket....in empty stadium or rooting in front of television, more often than not channel swap.... can't do much....but
Ramble....as rightly pointed out by Natty.....
debut: 2/2/23
2,122 runs
In reply to positiveg
for me, it comes down to sitting down with our big name players like Pooran, Hety, Shepherd, Evin Lews etc and asking them if they will agree to make themselves available for X percentage of the year to play in the West Indies and for the West Indies. If they dont want to commit, just let them do their thing and do not go back to them. Cricket is a team sport and you cannot have men just dropping in for a game or two and then disappearing for the rest of the year. Best consider these the talented but lost generation and move on from them to people who actually want to play for the West Indies and not just want to play when it is convenient. We lose with them, we lose without them. That means that we dont need them.
for me, it comes down to sitting down with our big name players like Pooran, Hety, Shepherd, Evin Lews etc and asking them if they will agree to make themselves available for X percentage of the year to play in the West Indies and for the West Indies. If they dont want to commit, just let them do their thing and do not go back to them. Cricket is a team sport and you cannot have men just dropping in for a game or two and then disappearing for the rest of the year. Best consider these the talented but lost generation and move on from them to people who actually want to play for the West Indies and not just want to play when it is convenient. We lose with them, we lose without them. That means that we dont need them.
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