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...why are the grandstanding weasely jackasses here focused on him as the reason(s) why West Indies cricket has been in decline for over 30 years?

It is a fact that if we hire the best current cricket coach in the world right now with the current state of our cricket it will not change a thing.

Do you think firing Sammy now will change the fortunes of West Indies cricket? There are debilitating systemic problems with West Indies cricket and we know this.

We are behaving like lil' boys and starting every other fucking thread about Sammy. This balderdash is never ending. ..even from posters who you think should know better.

Why don't allyuh get in in your fucking skulls that West Indies cricket is in a crisis and has been in a crisis for over30 years despite the constant changes in human resources.

The solution is not changing personnel ad nauseam but a radical shift in the way the game is played with concomitant increases in financial resource levels to administer the game on a strictly professional level.

It is intellectual fraud to focus on Sammy when we all know the real reasons for our cricket being in the doldrums.

Do we care about facts; do we care about intelligence or just come here to beat our asses uselessly?

Time to stop this tawdry behaviour.

In reply to Courtesy

A reality base opinion, no coach will vastly improve the WI performance in international cricket at the moment, although Sammy was able to get the more exposed international players to play Test cricket, it did not improve the results as other deficiencies turned up as most of those players forgot how to be close to the wicket catchers. Sammy should be given more time, because the just completed series was against the best cricket team at the moment, so it might not be a fair way to judge how bad the team is. They might sweep Pakistan in the upcoming series.

In reply to dayne

Sammy is the consequence of the problem and not the real problem. The constant focus on Sammy or any other coach will not solve our endemic cricket problems.

The solution is to have a professional approach to our cricket. It starts with producing technically sound cricketers.

In reply to Courtesy

I agree with the premise of your post. It requires patience to undergo a transformation. One series will not magically reverse a 39 year decline. Proven systems have to be implemented and given time to see incremental progress.
On a related note about coaches of West Indian pedigree, there was a discussion on the commentary panel between Daren Ganga and Brad Haddin. Ganga made a point about other countries retired players share their expertise after their playing days are over, whereas West Indians typically do not. Haddin immediately countered by indicating that South Australia has won the FC, LO & T20 Championships and Carl Hooper was part of the coaching staff.
So, you can make of that what you want!

In reply to Courtesy

You are always the voice of reason . We live in a blame culture and since they can't blame all of the players no matter how much we shuffle the deck or are willing to admit that our talent does not measure up to International standards, Sammy will have to be the fall guy and take one for the region. We all know that life is not always fair but he has the title and this is what comes with it.

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to NYCGURU

Simply put...we have to embrace truth about our cricket and pursue a reasoned path which will lead to a change of fortunes for West Indies cricket.

This crabs in a barrel approach will get us nowhere and in fact, has gotten us nowhere.

In reply to Courtesy

For once I agree with you that sacking Sammy won fix the ills that affect our cricket.

My question to you is this,why was he appointed in the first place

In reply to ponderiver

In reply to Courtesy

Only peeps as illustrious as your learned self could answer that

In reply to ponderiver

You are giving me way more credit than I deserve.

In reply to Courtesy

Oh I'll say it is richly deserved ,tek yuh time mi boss

In reply to ponderiver

We have diverging views on this issue...let's agree to disagree.

Sammy is a symptom of the issues of west indies his appointment as coach lacked transparecy or any type of sence but smacked full of insularity given the recent comments by the president of the board.while i agree dropping him will not make the windies better
Because this current some of tbese players have alteady reached their ceiling talent wise and ingrained bad habits are harder to fix in your thirties and late twenties .time to look at younger players

if they lose to pakistan you cant justify him as coach and adding to the fact his "vision" for the wi team have not paid off of a new brand of cricket has not worked .making chase test captain bringing back hope into test cricket making him t20 captain .

In reply to Courtesy

On the whole I'm in agreement....but after losing both the tests an t20's combined by an 8-0 margin including a historic an humiliating 27 all out dnt you think if this had happened to one of the bigger teams they also would be seriously considering firing the head coach??....we live in an era of accountability an even though it might have been the same result under a different/ superior coach there comes a time when as the English would say you have to fall on yuh sword....assuming of course you have any semblance of dignity....better to go on our own terms in a dignified way rather than hanging on to the bitter end only to eventually be carted off kicking an screaming!!

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to Jumpstart

You are one sick motherfucker.

In reply to velo

I do not agree to the theory that coaches don't make difference.....in all professional sports..... specially team sports....head coaches bring his team of staff.... Draw huge salary..... answerable for failures... accolades for success.... Fletcher-Hussain....Sourav-Wright, changed the mindset.....
As for Sammy......His appointment was absolutely bad....devoid of any transparent process......given exceptional and absolutely powers.... selector cum coach....

Appointed Jan 2023.......we are in July 2025....Results are worsening....

Should be sacked.....A transparent method for appointment, with proper batting and bowling coach...be appointed... this may be short term changes but absolutely required...

As for lack of talents in cricket West Indies.....players like Jofras,Bethells become big....the moment they given adequate training and facilities....Our cupboard never empty...

In reply to Courtesy

i am right though.....your program has been abysmal. clearly the windwards only know about is piss poor corporate governance(sammy's ascension as captain from fringe test, odi and t20 player to all format captain came under a board headed by windward dotties and ditto with his ascension as all format coach)..........or worse

Understanding Systemic Institutional Devolution
a. The SCOTUS awarding Roger Stone's thuggery and Bush's thievery led to Trump 16 yrs later.

b.CWI foisting the undeserving Sammy on us as cappo in 2009 has led to Sammy The Head Coach/ Sole Selector.

There's a reason institutions have rules, laws, norms, limits on power along with the need for ethical, moral-driven leaders!

In reply to Brerzerk

My lede says it all but some persons like to marinate in obfuscation and jacakassery. Let me repeat the lede: "Sammy is the wrong choice of coach..."

There are persons here who are totally happy with ignorance.

In reply to Courtesy

Well said, I could not have said it better.

In reply to tc1

Cheers. This should be obvious to anyone with critical thought and yet persons profit the opportunity to promote their own narrow agendas.

In reply to Courtesy

critical thought and windward islanders cricket doh belong in the same sentence

The entire system must be overhauled to raise elite cricketers from age 10. Fundamentals must be drilled into cricketers during their teens. Prepare them to deal with the high level of skills required. Get them into long first class cricket tours around the world.

This is a 10 year project. Step away from Test and ODI cricket for 5 years. It is a distraction of failure. Organize 4 day red ball tours under West Indies B.

In reply to WIForever

Solid!!

If only the powers that be could get off their ivory towers.

In reply to Courtesy

The lead statement came with qualification, backhanded excuse if you will. The 30yr decline and reasons are well known and have been thoroughly discussed here time and again.
That this tenure...Sammyesque coincides with record breaking, rock bottom decline deserves a stand alone discussion without any buts, it's or maybe. Tom Drunk But Tom Nuh Fool-fool. All here ha' 5 sense.

To fund us during that time. Caricom members annual contributions through taxes to fund all grass roots cricket, infrastructure and employment across the region. Setup a Saving West Indies cricket fund for corporates and individuals. Let's see how many who cuss on social media can put their money where their mouths are. An independent body will decide how the money is distributed with CWI serving as management and admin.

Plus we get ICC funds as a full member. I am sure something can be negotiated with the ICC to keep us in as a full member.

In reply to Courtesy

Look, it just seems awfully fishy that we playing musical chairs with skippers and coaches long time and as soon as Sammy reach position we ‘find religion’, and say ‘anybody’ will fail in this position, so keep him.

That’s all people saying.

In reply to Brerzerk

And you chose to highlight the segments of what you call "the Systemic Institutional Devolution" where Saint Lucians are involved?

The other majority aspects of the "devolution" mean absolutely nothing to you or are insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

Quite frankly, you don't have to be so aposematic. You don't have to play the politics of our cricket on the basis of assymetry.

In reply to Halliwell

So all you glean from my posts is that Sammy must be kept as coach in light of my statement that "Sammy is the wrong choice of coach."

In reply to WIForever

Sure. 10 year project. Everyone realizes there are major issues with WI cricket that no one person can resolve.

That said….West Indies cricket IS in the results business. That’s an inescapable fact.

To be clear, are you advocating that whoever the head coach is, be afforded 10 years to “complete the project”?

It was CWI that came out publicly and established a particular “strict” criteria for head coach selection.

They then promptly appointed someone who had few, if any of the same criterion they claimed was required for the position.

They then tripled down on that by appointing this person all format head coach. Certainly not based on white ball results. In addition, that person was also appointed chief selector.

So they’ve appointed a cricketing monarch. One who undoubtedly, had the West Indies cricket team had even a modicum of success, would have been hailed as the saviour of WI cricket, among other platitudes.

And now CWI has the gall to be surprised when, after the results of the team, criticism comes the way of the monarch, claiming said criticism is only because he’s St Lucian and from a small island?

And there are those who pretend to be “reasonable” by saying the problems with WI cricket run deeper and aren’t the fault of the head coach.

Who knew? Tell us something we don’t all know. But the same head coach / monarch would readily claim the credit if the team was even a little successful.

He was given the appointment. He happily accepted. Reap whatever comes along with it. Good and bad.

In reply to imusic

Will there be need for a head coach of West Indies if you step away from cricket as WIForever advocated for 5 years?

Why do we keep thinking with our bottoms and making asses of ourselves?

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to Courtesy

This is WI cricket it is a part of me. Maaan F%$# The Jamaican, Lucian, Bajanstuff! I'm aA Caribbean man who's hurting at what I see. That accusation is as vacuous yet as shallow as Shallow himself. There's one thing support Sammy on i.e. aiming to get who he believes are the best players playing together as much as possible and across formats where the skills mesh. But, didn't a main part of the devolution start with the regime that "rooted" out the best players? (OH there I go again!) Courtie, objectively solutions do begin with
a. 10yr plan
b.U10 up and academies
c. A leadership that has modern HR policies at the forefront
d. Inculcation of discipline (both players/mgt/ admin) with a clearly defined process no ambiguities. e.g.even b4 opening his mouth re Gibson Gayle would know what consequences would be. Rousseau shouldn't have to ask Cameron if contrary to policy uo to the was he being paid AS CWI PREZ.
I'll add more

In reply to imusic

In reply to Brerzerk

How did you get there? You have started to day dream again.

Let us not suffer from the Sammy Acute Derangement Syndrome (the SADS). This team was losing consistently long before Sammy, including to teams like Scotland and Netherlands. Sammy could not be expected to turn around 15 years of losing in one year with the same players playing.

In reply to PalsofMine

Sammy accepted a poisoned chalice and he should have been discerning enough not to accept it. Now having accepted the job; proceeded to make wholesome changes in a scenario where there is a dearth of talented professional cricketers and to fail miserably he should accept the calls for his resignation.

I for one would not have waited for any resignation..."Sammy yo are fired."

In reply to Courtesy

that sammy's fault and a pellucidly clear insight into a man without an iota of modesty. that such a limited cricketer and coach can reach so high in WI cricket means the joke is on us not him

In reply to PalsofMine

Wrong.

Under Sammy or as some would prefer, coincidental and parallel to the Sammy tenure, things have actually gotten worse.

Also, he has different players.

In all fairness, you cannot fire a man after one series. At least he had the balls to try something different in the test team. It turned out to be same shit, different day but at least he tried. the question must be do we have the ingredients to ever get a different result than regular cutarses from everyone. I think that the past few years have shown that we do not. Therefore to put all the blame on Sammy is not fair. The fix, I think, has to start from regional level at least or possibly lower. The Headley Weekes concept of the best playing the best was a good idea that was dropped. To have the better players only playing the sub par regional players over and over again will not improve the better players. We need a stronger regional competition together with a vibrant A team schedule to try to bring our better players as close to international standard as possible. We need that much more than playing several mindless white ball tours in the middle of our FC and other regional seasons. Without a good red ball background, none of those players are going to be of international white ball standard as we have seen from this latest debacle.

In reply to Brerzerk

In reply to rudebway

CWI has a marketing arm. Even damaged goods can attract Lil value we hope

Go back to basics first - as an example send A teams on tours to England pre season County to engage County teams (I do believe this was done in the past)or Invite one of UK OZ or SA 'county' to compete in 3 game series' yearly. Things like preparing permanent real spin wickets at 2 stadiums at least , 2 grassy ones at other sites and scheduling pink ball night games at opportune times prior to Tests can help. Just to name a few ideas.

In reply to Brerzerk

But is it a good marketing team?

In reply to Brerzerk

reading this thread, separate and apart from the pseudo intellectual ramblings to deflect/defend Sammy, these structural and institutional changes talked about will need government buy in and fiscal support. Maybe i am just a pessimist that has given up.

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to imusic

In reply to Onionman0