debut: 6/22/08
14,405 runs
In reply to powen001
Lots of revisionist historians on this site
Lots of revisionist historians on this site
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pooran aint captain material
debut: 6/3/24
344 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Having great players at your disposal wouldn't necessarily improve your captaincy skills an instincts if yuh don't know how to maximise their ability....so all things considered given the material(or lack of ) he had to work with where would you place Lara on the list of Windies captains in the last 50 years?
Having great players at your disposal wouldn't necessarily improve your captaincy skills an instincts if yuh don't know how to maximise their ability....so all things considered given the material(or lack of ) he had to work with where would you place Lara on the list of Windies captains in the last 50 years?
debut: 11/30/17
12,798 runs
In reply to CCW
lara was the only great test batsman in his team homes. shiv as late as 2005 was averaging 45. Hhad two great test bowlers from 98 to 1999/2000, when he left the captaincy after the nz visit. walsh and ambrose both retired under captains other than lara, adams and hooper respectively..........in 2003, lara had tino, dave bernard, vasbert drakes(spoiled by wi incompetence), merv dillon and adam sanford. things only improved in the last test of that season when lara insisted on the selection of fidel edwards
lara was the only great test batsman in his team homes. shiv as late as 2005 was averaging 45. Hhad two great test bowlers from 98 to 1999/2000, when he left the captaincy after the nz visit. walsh and ambrose both retired under captains other than lara, adams and hooper respectively..........in 2003, lara had tino, dave bernard, vasbert drakes(spoiled by wi incompetence), merv dillon and adam sanford. things only improved in the last test of that season when lara insisted on the selection of fidel edwards
debut: 11/26/06
62,628 runs
In reply to Walco
Cackle THAT is the word I resisted posting…but you NAILED IT!!
Ah mean…All of us were alive between 1994 and 2007 ent?
one Jumpstart trying to convince us that the Super Batsman BC Lara was ALSO a Great Captain.
HA HA HA HA ….
Trinis does drink some strong ramsgate liquor I tell yuh!!
Lots of revisionist historians on this site
Cackle THAT is the word I resisted posting…but you NAILED IT!!
Ah mean…All of us were alive between 1994 and 2007 ent?
one Jumpstart trying to convince us that the Super Batsman BC Lara was ALSO a Great Captain.
HA HA HA HA ….
Trinis does drink some strong ramsgate liquor I tell yuh!!
debut: 11/30/17
12,798 runs
In reply to powen001
so you're saying lara could have done better with tino, patterson thompson, adrian griffith, courtney browne, pedro collins, ryan hurley, ryan hinds, roland holder, ottis gibson, an unnamed cricketer who allegedly had the runs the night before facing allan donald at the wanderers in 1999?
one Jumpstart trying to convince us that the Super Batsman BC Lara was ALSO a Great Captain.
so you're saying lara could have done better with tino, patterson thompson, adrian griffith, courtney browne, pedro collins, ryan hurley, ryan hinds, roland holder, ottis gibson, an unnamed cricketer who allegedly had the runs the night before facing allan donald at the wanderers in 1999?
debut: 11/26/06
62,628 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
bro…Regardless of the team a man or woman is given.
Results yes are a marker but NOT the only one.
LEADERSHIP is a whole lot more.
That’s all I lol say lest this devolves into nonsense.
Lara for me is the single most bestest Batsman.
Ability to adapt and craft his way to victories out of impossible situations many times.
I personally wanted to see him inspire his charges likewise but alas…it did not really ever happen.
Lara was always a loner in that respect- I do NOT hold that against him…but the ability to lead whatever team he was given cannot be claimed as one of his gifts.
I was there for every ball
I saw him before he came out to score that 153 at Kensington.. I saw him…alone…in his head…a frikken Genius …visualizing the last innings…not a boy said a word…Lara got up…went out and created history.
But the bullet points that go next to a Leader of men… He did not check all of the boxes.
bro…Regardless of the team a man or woman is given.
Results yes are a marker but NOT the only one.
LEADERSHIP is a whole lot more.
That’s all I lol say lest this devolves into nonsense.
Lara for me is the single most bestest Batsman.
Ability to adapt and craft his way to victories out of impossible situations many times.
I personally wanted to see him inspire his charges likewise but alas…it did not really ever happen.
Lara was always a loner in that respect- I do NOT hold that against him…but the ability to lead whatever team he was given cannot be claimed as one of his gifts.
I was there for every ball
I saw him before he came out to score that 153 at Kensington.. I saw him…alone…in his head…a frikken Genius …visualizing the last innings…not a boy said a word…Lara got up…went out and created history.
But the bullet points that go next to a Leader of men… He did not check all of the boxes.
debut: 11/26/06
62,628 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Oh.. I had high hopes for Pooran with the WEST INDIES too.
Wanted him to marry my eldest daughter and all lol
Pooran chose a different path.
Sometimes those we chose to adore can disappoint us.
Oh.. I had high hopes for Pooran with the WEST INDIES too.
Wanted him to marry my eldest daughter and all lol
Pooran chose a different path.
Sometimes those we chose to adore can disappoint us.
debut: 11/30/17
12,798 runs
In reply to powen001
who you think taught sarwan to play murali when most of the world couldn't lay an inside edge on him...same with shiv
yes lara was at times moody, distant and not the most nurturing to some of the team(never heard any complaints from sarwan but gayle did say in his book at times they were virtually begging lara to talk to them) but he's human, despite his superhuman skills with the bat, and lara was tasked with the least enviable task in world cricket: upholding what would eventually be anm impossible task...upholding, then restoring the West Indian cricketing dynasty. And lara was under that kind of pressure from 1992, when he camme in at 10-1 versus south africa at kensington until he bowed out in pakistan 17 years later, and all this time, he had to put up ith fights with the wicb who had no kind of structure when coming to player development and expected miracles on the field every time. At least with Allan Border, the ACB was very supportive, were in it for the long haul and put structures in place so that australia would have a competitive team by the late 80s. Lara had none of that. And then having to put up with morons like tony cozier saying he wasn't good for west indies cricket after 17 years of service
bro…Regardless of the team a man or woman is given.
Results yes are a marker but NOT the only one.
LEADERSHIP is a whole lot more.
That’s all I lol say lest this devolves into nonsense.
Results yes are a marker but NOT the only one.
LEADERSHIP is a whole lot more.
That’s all I lol say lest this devolves into nonsense.
who you think taught sarwan to play murali when most of the world couldn't lay an inside edge on him...same with shiv
That was the game when Harbhajan get three wickets in one over [actually two in one; and four in three] and left me on 97. I can't believe he did that! In that game Harbhajan was bowling a line on the off stump just outside the off stump and I was just leaving the ball, leaving the ball. And some of it was a bit fuller so you can't cut at it and you can't drive at it. When I went inside, Brian say he wanted us to score a bit faster, so he was tellin' me why don't I hit the ball? I said, 'Bri, he's bowling just outside the off stump, and I can't, I can't just hit those balls!' Bri said, 'Get your foot closer to the ball and hit it! Get closer to the ball!' I tell myself, 'All right, let me go out and try what he's saying.' So as Harbhajan bowled the ball outside off stump I just tried to get my foot closer to cut it, and it run away through backward point for four. So I said, this fella here, he knows a lot of things about batting.
yes lara was at times moody, distant and not the most nurturing to some of the team(never heard any complaints from sarwan but gayle did say in his book at times they were virtually begging lara to talk to them) but he's human, despite his superhuman skills with the bat, and lara was tasked with the least enviable task in world cricket: upholding what would eventually be anm impossible task...upholding, then restoring the West Indian cricketing dynasty. And lara was under that kind of pressure from 1992, when he camme in at 10-1 versus south africa at kensington until he bowed out in pakistan 17 years later, and all this time, he had to put up ith fights with the wicb who had no kind of structure when coming to player development and expected miracles on the field every time. At least with Allan Border, the ACB was very supportive, were in it for the long haul and put structures in place so that australia would have a competitive team by the late 80s. Lara had none of that. And then having to put up with morons like tony cozier saying he wasn't good for west indies cricket after 17 years of service
- edited -
debut: 11/26/06
62,628 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
I dont disagree with those points..but I cannot join you in trying to rewrite history.
I recognized that Lara like Prince were genuises- Both men..ahead of everybody else and demanding of all around them.
Lara however had a few things spill out in Public that didnt help.
Pickin up and Driving the BMW to Kensington instead of riding in the team bus was poor optics...regardless of the reasons.
Leaders dont get to bitch and moan and complain...so. Lara was my Batting hero but not my Captain.
Are you aware that Ch Gayle commanded more affection and support from the same lads than Lara?
But I leave that there... We were all here mate.
I never stopped appreciating the mans super skills..but I dont romanticize about his leadership.
I dont disagree with those points..but I cannot join you in trying to rewrite history.
I recognized that Lara like Prince were genuises- Both men..ahead of everybody else and demanding of all around them.
Lara however had a few things spill out in Public that didnt help.
Pickin up and Driving the BMW to Kensington instead of riding in the team bus was poor optics...regardless of the reasons.
Leaders dont get to bitch and moan and complain...so. Lara was my Batting hero but not my Captain.
Are you aware that Ch Gayle commanded more affection and support from the same lads than Lara?
But I leave that there... We were all here mate.
I never stopped appreciating the mans super skills..but I dont romanticize about his leadership.
debut: 1/24/04
16,532 runs
In reply to powen001
Lara was a great batsman. He was never a great team man and he was a terrible captain.
I'll never forget the first time I saw Lara play - live in person. It was either 1992 or 1993. He hadn't broken Sobers record as yet but he had scored that 277. It was a fete match here in Canada at G. Ross Lord Park. The teams had a mixture of local players and Canadian national players like Danny Singh who captained Canada at that time. If I remember correctly Lara was the only international/Test player and he was specially invited to play by the organizers.
Anyway, there were a few hundred people in the crowd to see Lara. I believe Lara's team fielded first and when the innings finished all the players went to their team tent except Lara, who went and sat about 30 yards away with a young lady and a little youth man (his kit bag was also there). It was pretty evident that he was there to flirt with her and the cricket was a side show. When it was his turn to bat they had to send another player over to tell him - that's how far he was away from his team. He didn't make a lot of runs. In fact, he was out plumb LBW on the second or third ball but the local ump was never going to put him out since the majority of the crowd went to see Lara bat.
But the optics of it all was not good. It was fete match, fair enough, but at no time did he seem interested in being with the other players in his team that day.
Pickin up and Driving the BMW to Kensington instead of riding in the team bus was poor optics.
Lara was a great batsman. He was never a great team man and he was a terrible captain.
I'll never forget the first time I saw Lara play - live in person. It was either 1992 or 1993. He hadn't broken Sobers record as yet but he had scored that 277. It was a fete match here in Canada at G. Ross Lord Park. The teams had a mixture of local players and Canadian national players like Danny Singh who captained Canada at that time. If I remember correctly Lara was the only international/Test player and he was specially invited to play by the organizers.
Anyway, there were a few hundred people in the crowd to see Lara. I believe Lara's team fielded first and when the innings finished all the players went to their team tent except Lara, who went and sat about 30 yards away with a young lady and a little youth man (his kit bag was also there). It was pretty evident that he was there to flirt with her and the cricket was a side show. When it was his turn to bat they had to send another player over to tell him - that's how far he was away from his team. He didn't make a lot of runs. In fact, he was out plumb LBW on the second or third ball but the local ump was never going to put him out since the majority of the crowd went to see Lara bat.
But the optics of it all was not good. It was fete match, fair enough, but at no time did he seem interested in being with the other players in his team that day.
- edited -
debut: 5/1/21
2,685 runs
In reply to SnoopDog
I can agree that Lara wasn't a great captain but that story is a bit Trumpian!!!
You would rather the chap hang around a bunch of men he's doesn't know and probably never see again in his life versus checking out gyal c'mon bro be realistic lol
I can agree that Lara wasn't a great captain but that story is a bit Trumpian!!!
You would rather the chap hang around a bunch of men he's doesn't know and probably never see again in his life versus checking out gyal c'mon bro be realistic lol
debut: 2/16/17
40,656 runs
In reply to powen001
I get that the BMW to Kensington was poor optics. But one moment shouldn’t rewrite a career.
Lara, like every great, had human flaws.
It’s not fair to turn that into villainy, especially given the joy and pride his cricket brought to the region.
I get that the BMW to Kensington was poor optics. But one moment shouldn’t rewrite a career.
Lara, like every great, had human flaws.
It’s not fair to turn that into villainy, especially given the joy and pride his cricket brought to the region.
debut: 1/24/04
16,532 runs
In reply to WIfan26
At that time Lara wasn't a star. He was just another young player for the West Indies.
But he behaved like his shit didn't stink. There was plenty of time to hustle the woman after the game. He was there as a special invite for the organizers and the least he could do was to be with his team during the game.
But it goes back to what Powen wrote about him going to ground in his BMW instead of in the team bus. As a leader you're never going to get your teammates to follow and respect you when you behave in this manner.
At that time Lara wasn't a star. He was just another young player for the West Indies.
But he behaved like his shit didn't stink. There was plenty of time to hustle the woman after the game. He was there as a special invite for the organizers and the least he could do was to be with his team during the game.
But it goes back to what Powen wrote about him going to ground in his BMW instead of in the team bus. As a leader you're never going to get your teammates to follow and respect you when you behave in this manner.
debut: 1/24/04
16,532 runs
In reply to sgtdjones
Fair comment isn't villainy.
No one will ever doubt his batsmanship but his leadership qualities were poor.
It’s not fair to turn that into villainy, especially given the joy and pride his cricket brought to the region.
Fair comment isn't villainy.
No one will ever doubt his batsmanship but his leadership qualities were poor.
debut: 11/13/02
80,945 runs
In reply to SnoopDog
Unless Lara subsequently played in Canada, you conveniently omitted the words “& only” given that you terrified to leave canada in the first place.
I'll never forget the first time I saw Lara play - live in person.
Unless Lara subsequently played in Canada, you conveniently omitted the words “& only” given that you terrified to leave canada in the first place.
debut: 7/2/12
29,352 runs
In reply to SnoopDog
The stories of the great of the day are shocking. Men aint sleep and drunk.
Yet they dominated.
The stories of the great of the day are shocking. Men aint sleep and drunk.
Yet they dominated.
debut: 1/24/04
16,532 runs
In reply to nick2020
And eventually caught up with us with the inevitable downfall.
The stories of the great of the day are shocking. Men aint sleep and drunk.
Yet they dominated.
Yet they dominated.
And eventually caught up with us with the inevitable downfall.
debut: 11/30/17
12,798 runs
In reply to sgtdjones
look like he stop taking polly advice when fabian started hitting. tkr end up chasing 30 runs more than they should have chased
Polly is helping Poooooo tonite
look like he stop taking polly advice when fabian started hitting. tkr end up chasing 30 runs more than they should have chased
debut: 11/30/17
12,798 runs
In reply to powen001
Are you aware that Chris Gayle commanded more affection and support from the same lads than Lara
this is why i've said gayle was our best captain since clive on numerous occasions and that removing him as captain in 2010 when the team was clearly on the up was the decision that signaled then end of west indies cricket. yuh boy tony cozier supported sammy's appointment as captain and also holder's, even though both were not regular members of the team.
But as I've argued on numerous occasions, lara was only as good as the team he was given. Tino best could not be a better paceman than the one he became no matter how good a leader was there. In gayle's time as skipper, he couldn't even get near the team. Colleymore was accurate and skillful but very slow after his back injury in 1999, and he was consistently lara's best paceman. Merv dillon was undisciplined under walsh, under adams, under hooper(save the 2002 india home series) so what are the chances he'd suddenly find focus under brian?! Geoff Boycott once said Adam Sanford couldn't get his grandmother out. And that was the issue under lara. the bowling. Lara scored 196 and 176 in two tests vs SA in 2005 and the west indies still lost because they couldn't dismiss SA. Ditto with Australia in 2003. The minute jermaine lawson cleaned up australia in the last test of that series, you realized that team was very fragile once confronted by hostile bowling, the same type of bowling that saw them lose to england in 2005. Gayle, sarwan and tiger all averaged over 40, in tiger's case, over 45 iin lara's time as skipper.
Are you aware that Chris Gayle commanded more affection and support from the same lads than Lara
this is why i've said gayle was our best captain since clive on numerous occasions and that removing him as captain in 2010 when the team was clearly on the up was the decision that signaled then end of west indies cricket. yuh boy tony cozier supported sammy's appointment as captain and also holder's, even though both were not regular members of the team.
But as I've argued on numerous occasions, lara was only as good as the team he was given. Tino best could not be a better paceman than the one he became no matter how good a leader was there. In gayle's time as skipper, he couldn't even get near the team. Colleymore was accurate and skillful but very slow after his back injury in 1999, and he was consistently lara's best paceman. Merv dillon was undisciplined under walsh, under adams, under hooper(save the 2002 india home series) so what are the chances he'd suddenly find focus under brian?! Geoff Boycott once said Adam Sanford couldn't get his grandmother out. And that was the issue under lara. the bowling. Lara scored 196 and 176 in two tests vs SA in 2005 and the west indies still lost because they couldn't dismiss SA. Ditto with Australia in 2003. The minute jermaine lawson cleaned up australia in the last test of that series, you realized that team was very fragile once confronted by hostile bowling, the same type of bowling that saw them lose to england in 2005. Gayle, sarwan and tiger all averaged over 40, in tiger's case, over 45 iin lara's time as skipper.
- edited -
debut: 11/13/02
80,945 runs
In reply to SnoopDog
No matter how much chat u have….you still dare not try and leave canada….
No live international cricket matches for you
No matter how much chat u have….you still dare not try and leave canada….
No live international cricket matches for you
debut: 1/24/04
16,532 runs
In reply to Walco
It's actually only one.
And the rest of his Titte brethren dem like Sarge and iTito have left him on his own.
Lots of revisionist historians on this site
It's actually only one.
And the rest of his Titte brethren dem like Sarge and iTito have left him on his own.
debut: 11/26/06
62,628 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Let me squeeze this thought into the debate.
Chris was popular with everyone except several key persons with authority and influence.
So the thinking of…let’s get someone more amenable to the current leadership to bring some calm and “ respectability” back to the squad.
I love CH Gayle and sided with him and his mouthings to defend the lads from time to time but just perhaps Jumpstart…Sammy was used to be a counter culture persona to Ch Gayle who had already won over most of the lads in the dressing room.
Fast Fwd to Sammy at WC 2016 shocking them and us by calling out the leaderships hypocrisy for all to see and then rub salt in by winning the entire thing.
All I am saying is.
Lara pissed off many in the top.
so did Gayle
Sammy to my mind was supposed to represent some elusive colonial decency they wanted to be the Culture but Sammy cuss Cameron and the won the damn WC to boot with a TEAM UNITED behind him.
Ah hope you seeing what I am saying…
The Best Leaders can pull the best out of any one…stars or average alike.
Let me squeeze this thought into the debate.
Chris was popular with everyone except several key persons with authority and influence.
So the thinking of…let’s get someone more amenable to the current leadership to bring some calm and “ respectability” back to the squad.
I love CH Gayle and sided with him and his mouthings to defend the lads from time to time but just perhaps Jumpstart…Sammy was used to be a counter culture persona to Ch Gayle who had already won over most of the lads in the dressing room.
Fast Fwd to Sammy at WC 2016 shocking them and us by calling out the leaderships hypocrisy for all to see and then rub salt in by winning the entire thing.
All I am saying is.
Lara pissed off many in the top.
so did Gayle
Sammy to my mind was supposed to represent some elusive colonial decency they wanted to be the Culture but Sammy cuss Cameron and the won the damn WC to boot with a TEAM UNITED behind him.
Ah hope you seeing what I am saying…
The Best Leaders can pull the best out of any one…stars or average alike.
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