This board is a bit too geriatric for this conversation

@InHindsight

@PalsofMine

Hope is very good. But when we go by memory and subjectivity we should always stop and "check"

In an era of tiny bats and restrictions IVA has an astonishing s/r of 96! Gayle who played across eras has less, 87 I think. Gayle's ODI record is superior to Hope's and better than his own T20I record! Gayle passed fifty every 2.7 ODI, Viv every 2.8 and Shai every 2.9. Even with 2 T20I tons Gayle averages less than 30.Hope's ODI sr is less than Gayle's (79) but avg 13 runs better (20 not outs) both have the same ODI sr.

@conman

you may not realize you're going off what you're seeing now re Hope which could be kinda lazy. Viv and Gayle are ahead of him in stats and "presence" of the 3 which 2 would you pencil 1st as your 8DI opener and or #3-4 based on all parameters?

@InHindsight

T20 or ODI?

Gayle T20

Hope ODI

Shai is very good but Gayle whose ODI record is even better than his T20I one is ahead of Shai. IVA from the era of small bats and restrictions is way ahead with his 96sr (Gayle 87, Shai 79) Gayle scored 50+ every 2.7 innings Viv every 2.8 Shai currently 2.9. Shai's ODI avg is 13runs above Gayle's. With half # of matches as Gayle he has 2X more not outs. Even with 2 T20I tons Gayle averages less than 27, Shai 30; both have same sr.

Question- of the 3 which 2 would you pencil in 1st as your white ball opener or #3-4???

@Brerzerk

I refrain from being too dogmatic at comparisons based purely on stats. And that's not to discount its importance.

The game of cricket has evolved through the decades, added to the many variables that serve to influence the player records and their dominance in the game.

You mentioned bats, I include with it, the oppositions, analysis, and the dynamics of the team within which each played. There are many others of course.

Shai is still in the midst of his career, unlike those with whom we compare. It is instructive though that he has now entered the conversation.

@PalsofMine

You you read from my initial post you'd see that I am judging Shai based on solely on his white ball performances.

He may well end with a credible record in tests

@InHindsight

And every bit of info, stat and observation I've posted is about white ball cricket. I would never at this stage waste my time doing test cricket comparisons with Shai vs Viv n Crampy!

@Brerzerk

Note, my last post was not in response to you

See how I addressed the points you raised

@natty_forever

It is actually the other way around.

In T20I Shai is up there with him except he was the innovator.

In ODI Gayle is better although Shai's avg is 13 runs higher.

Gayle-More tons/50 per times at bat.

More significant innings to the WI cause.

Better tournament returns so far.

More domination of opposition

@Brerzerk

In ODIs Gayle for now, has more and bigger tons. Shai is more consistent and has a higher average than Gayle did.

Reminiscent of Lara and Tendulkar. The former had huge landmarks but the former was more consistent. Except that their averages we in the 50s and relatively close.

As to who was better, this will always be a moot point. I know who I preferred watching and who grabbed the headlines more.

We will always have a serious problem with naming a GOAT.

First and main issue is that Viv never played T20 (obvious reasons)

Ergo, I do not think that it is wise to undertake a White Ball GOAT

Better to separate ODI from T20, and the inevitable T10 when it comes in.

So for me, at this time.

Sir Viv ODI GOAT with no one close.

Gayle T20I GOAT with no one close.

I cannot in good faith speak of a White ball GOAT.

And if I undertake such speculation, I would put Sir Viv as GOAT.

I can only imagine a young Viv in T20I.

But that is speculative.

Who here really believe that Sir Viv would not have dominated T20I's?

Hope still has the opportunity to overtake Gayle, but he is not there now.

I think that Hope should put away the gloves, and bat.

Afterall, we have Jangoo to keep.

Gayle and or Hope cannot tie Sir Viv boots in any form of cricket.

whether, bowling, batting, fielding, or even captaining.

Sir Viv brought fear to the opposition in all aspects of the game.

Even commentators were fearful!

BTW, Sir Viv was very good wicketkeeper as well.