"I apologise, Vaibhav, but if you look at how West Indies handled Brian Lara… he was a generational talent, everyone knew," Brathwaite said on ESPNcricinfo's TimeOut show after Sooryavanshi's 37-ball 103 for Rajasthan Royals (RR) went in vain against Sunrisers Hyderabad (SRH). "So what did West Indies do? They put him in the mix with Viv Richards and what not, but he didn't play [international cricket]. That was a different time with loads of tour games, and he cut his teeth with the senior players without having made his debut. And then we know how his career went once he debuted.

This explains why the caribbean is such a mess. our young people know nothing about even recent history. Brian lara was handled exceptionally poorly. In fact it was so bad, at one point, both Michael Holding and Garfield Sobers openly questioned why lara was not being picked in the final xi.

Whatever else transpires during the upcoming three-month sojourn in the Caribbean, one feature is more or less guaranteed, and it will not bring joy to the hearts of the English bowlers. The sublime skills of Trinidadian Brian Lara, already hailed as a batting genius at the tender age of 24, will undoubtedly adorn what promises to be an enthralling series.

The arrival of the prodigal son may have been tardy, but the 5 ft 5 ins left-hander is now firmly established on the world stage, an icon to all those who purr at the aesthetics of batsmanship. The West Indies selectors, wavering despite an increasingly fragile middle order, delayed his consolidation at Test level for what seemed an interminable age to most Caribbean cognoscenti.

In the 1991 domestic season, for instance, he amassed 627 runs in five matches, including six consecutive fifties, a tournament record which Desmond Haynes actually surpassed only a week later. During the Jamaica match, on an unpredictable surface at Sabina Park, he made 122 and 87, eliciting a cogent remark from radio commentator Michael Holding: "I'd pick Lara first for the Test team, then look for 10 others."

BC Pires, had this to say about Viv's treatment of Brian Lara

On the night of April 18 1994, the day of the 375, Brian Lara presented a West Indies Players' Association award to his former captain Vivian Richards. It was one of the most delicious of the myriad slices of irony that West Indies cricket regularly serves up: everyone watching knew that Richards, as captain, had done everything he could to keep Lara out of the crease when he could no longer keep him out of the side. Even Lara, at his most magnanimous, could not sidestep a truth every observer felt as keenly as his new world record.

">RTN has disappointed me many times but this has to take the biscuit. and to say it with a straight face is even more bemusing. The IPL audience doesen't know much about cricket outside their borders, harsha bhogle, tendulkar, dravid and ravi shastri excluded, but anybody who grew up in the 90s would know how much utter hogwash this is

@Jumpstart

For once I agree with you.

😂😂😂

On a serious note.

Although Lara was in the various squads,

he was kept out of the final 11 by Sir Viv.

Rumors at the time was that Viv stated that he did

want a rival for him as best batsman.

Imagine Keith Arthurton playing ahead of Lara.

Lara was mistreated by Viv and co.

@TanteMerle

lol Tellin yuh. I have a video made by Channel 9( Packer’s television station) which showed the entires series highlights of the 1991 series between WI and Australia. Wes Hall, who was manager of the team, said that the WI middle order had been weak for the last five or six years, which would take us back to 1985 or 1986…..which is when Clive, Larry Gomes and co retired. The bowling replenished. The batting never did between their retirements and 1991. In fact the same players making hundreds in 1986: greenidge, Haynes, Richardson were the same people making hundreds in 1991(Viv’s last century was in 1989) and WI would have lost that series if it weren’t for big hundreds by Richardson in the Guyana test and Greenidge’s last hundred(226) in the fourth test. RTN talking utter nonsense here.

Kieth athurton aka Mr binary

goes back to a massive issue with our young people. They don’t even know recent history but are always willing to offer their opinion on historical matters to look intelligent. And they end up looking foolish to people who know and worse, end up spreading misinformation to those who don’t and not going to check. That’s why among some West Indians, the idea that Africans migrated here has taken root which again is total and utter BS

@Jumpstart

@TanteMerle

Two things informed me regarding The Young Prince.

Becca wrote an article -Lara From The Top Drawer.

Watching TNT go for quick runs at Bina and Lara with great ease depositing Patto on The Kingston Club roof! We started wondering how Arthurton was playing ahead of him.

@TanteMerle

Viv to me seemed to be a very insecure person, and the stories that have come out since from both Lara and others like Carlisle Best have simply reinforced that image. I could be wrong but it’s the image I get

@Brerzerk

Politics nah. The same politics that destroyed Gayle’s potentially champion side and removed our best captain since Clive Lloyd. Yes. I am saying and have always said Chris Gayle was our best captain since Clive Lloyd. And I make no apologies about that

@TanteMerle

The unofficial autobiography on Lara by a gentleman from New Zealand who was married to a West Indian said one of the players on tour told him that one of the senior players in the team said Lara was only picked because Joey Carew was a selector. As told a friend, the Indian audience does know much about cricket outside of India, but there are people in the know in India who were/are either friends of Lara or were playing or were in cricket circles around that time, people like tendulkar, harsha bhogle, Ravi Shastri, rahul dravid and hopefully they’ll inform management privately that the Lara treatment is absolutely no way to treat a young batting genius and that Carlos talking absolute rubbish here. I’m surprised he didn’t tell the panel that Virat Kohli should throw Sooryavanshi’s kit outside the dressing room to show him how cold professional sport is. What a dweeb

"I apologise, Vaibhav, but if you look at how West Indies handled Brian Lara… he was a generational talent, everyone knew," Brathwaite said on ESPNcricinfo's TimeOut show after Sooryavanshi's 37-ball 103 for Rajasthan Royals (RR) went in vain against Sunrisers Hyderabad (SRH). "So what did West Indies do? They put him in the mix with Viv Richards and what not, but he didn't play [international cricket]. That was a different time with loads of tour games, and he cut his teeth with the senior players without having made his debut. And then we know how his career went once he debuted.

if the above is all or the main points Carlos employed in his assertion, he is factually correct. Whether Lara was unfairly kept out of the team or not and by whom were not commented upon by Carlos.

if so this is nothing burger by an ignorant Tit

@sudden

you and VOT are the same., not even bajans agreeing with you on this one homes

sodden

What do you know about cricket ? sheesh

Your girth is bigger than Cornwall and you can't see your feet standing up.

I see why you mention "burger" was that on Cheffettes menu today?😳

@sudden

allyuh was protesting for a mediocre talent like anderson cummins who wasn't even fully interested in cricket. if lara was bajan with his level of otherworldly brilliance, bet yuh bottom dollar if they, whether is viv or some dot selector didn't want tpop pick him, that undefeated team would have split in two because greenidge, haynes and maco wasn't taking that

@Jumpstart

Show me where in that excerpt Carlos opined on whether Lara was treated unfairly or not

@sudden

I trying to understand the issue.

@natty_forever

There is none

just a tit being a tit

@sudden

he's opining that somehow lara's introduction to international cricket was beneficial, and should be imitated by the indian cricket officials

So what did West Indies do? They put him in the mix with Viv Richards and what not, but he didn't play [international cricket]. That was a different time with loads of tour games, and he cut his teeth with the senior players without having made his debut. And then we know how his career went once he debuted.

Which is very contrary to what everyone who wasn't viv thought. Not that anybody whose name isn't viv richards or carlos brathwaite thought there was any kind of strategy in in it, exemplified by the picking of inferior talents like keith athurton. Compare that to sachin tendulkar, who ironically faced the same attack lara faced on debut and wasn't as successful, but was placed in an indian team with the likes of kapil dev, an icc hall of fame inductee, ravi shastri, one of the best allrounders of the 1980s, mohammed azharuddin, the most skillful of the indian batsmen from the late 80s to the mid 90s. Sachin was 16 by the time he debuted by the way.

So from carlos' two paragraphs of mess we can glean three things

1. he believes keeping brian lara out of WI cricket from 21 to 24 was beneficial, despite the disagreement of most cricket followers of that time
2. that it was strategic, which no one not named viv richards or carlos brathwaite believes
3. 3. he believes this is the right strategy to be used of sooryavanshi.

proof that this was just misinformed bs is that lara made 44 against the 2nd best attack in world cricket at the time...waqar and wasim, imran and abdul qadir, each one of them, including 19 year old waqar already an international star, and could not make his way into a west indian test side for the next two test series against australia and england....and australia and england had far, far inferior attacks to that pakistan attack, all of who are in the icc hall of fame along with brian charles himself

@Jumpstart

That takes us nowhere

what Carlos said was a factual account of what took place

if we are to go down the route you want to take, it is arguable that Lara’s slight, whatever it was, made him hungrier to succeed when he got the chance and he did.

that is not to say this is what Carlos was intimating if he was intimating anything at all

you are reading into something that you want to argue about or want to condemn Carlos for, which is not readily evident in the excerpt you quoted

find out exactly what he meant and then you can make your case

@sudden

if we are to go down the route you want to take, it is arguable that Lara’s slight, whatever it was, made him hungrier to succeed when he got the chance and he did.

BS as usual. but i didn't expect any different from you. Sachin Tendulkar at 16 was integrated into a high performing batting lineup...at 16. As a result, he never thought that he was the main man in the indian batting lineup. Sachin's first hundred in England came on a tour where both mo azharuddin and ravi shastri scored two hundreds and averaged over 70 for the tour. That is how you blood young players. you integrate them into a high performing unit where the pressure is not constantly on them but also where they know their role and function in the side.

The fact that lara was the main man in west indian batting, and later west indian cricket from his 2nd test against south africa to his last in multan in pakistan could nopt have helped his demeanour, and this was pointed out by this Australian journalist.

That Lara rose amid the ruins of an empire cannot have helped his demeanour. As defeat for West Indies became the natural order, a crumbling dynasty turned to its last titan. Yet in taking on that burden, Lara proved himself perhaps an even greater player than he could have been had he been surrounded by fellow champions. If this was a one-man team, there can rarely have been one man so well equipped for the job.

you put a precociously gifted person in a state of constant pressure and eventually he is going to believe he is the man, that the unit rises and falls with him and that obviously lead to the petulance that plagued lara in the mid 90s and could not be culled by the weak and weak minded captaincy of richardson because richardson wasn't a leader by any stretch of the imagination. Desmond Haynes who was an alpha male and who lara looked up to enormously could do that but they never appointed him captain and got rid of him by 1994 totally.

In 1991 the west indian batting lineup was crumbling, the same people who were scoring hundreds in the mid 80s were the people scoring hundreds for the West Indies in 1991....greenidge and haynes. Viv's last hundred came in 1989. i don't believe he got past 80 after that but I'm subject to correction on that one. If the management had a little sense and that includes the captain, they'd have integrated lara into the set up to both provide another option in the middle and to groom him. Instead of throwing his kit out a dressing room, telling him to watch the rain. Brian lara according to jimmy adams did 27 or 28 tests as 12th man. Are you saying that is how to treat a young [performing player? But west indians feel that negative reinforcement is what works even though the state of the region has shown that is absolute hogwash. So don't pick him, it will make him hungrier.....utter unadulterated tripe

@Jumpstart

Again nothing you said there made contact with what Carlos said in your excerpt such as it is

please grow up, will yuh

@sudden

get a brain . you know nothing of a high performance sporting environment....and i don't think most west indians know either. the obvious exception being the Jamaicans who have athletics down to a science and whose stars, at least on the male side, took a keen interest in the young sprinters coming up, even in a largely individual sport. Bajans certainly know nothing about it. If carlos has to suggest this is the way to treat a precociously gifted young player, he has to take everything that came along with what lara experienced during that time. can't pick and choose

And don't go back to carlos when you are arguing that treatment made lara hungrier. you know its a nonsensical, asinine argument which is why you are now trying to hide behind RTN

@Jumpstart

On the face if it, nothing said in that excerpt could lead to the conclusion drawn by you unless you have other compelling information

if you do please share

@sudden

I maintain that there are enough sensible people in Indian cricket who knew lara, knew what lara had to put up with during what he describes as the most miserable period of his life, were in cricket circles either as a player or manager know the "Lara strategy" is no strategy at all and know to ignore the rantings of a man who knows nothing about cricket. his career except for four deliveries showed that as well

@Jumpstart

Dam bro you need to change your name to anecdote you certainly have a story for everything 🙄

Brian Lara is probably the greatest batsman in World Cricket without a doubt and there’s a 15 year old kid treating Bumrah and co. like they’re Tino Best why wouldn’t any cricket pundit make that correlation to the G.O.A.T.???

Furthermore Lara brought about that entire narrative in his book The England Chronicles and has mentioned it in interviews and podcasts so why wouldn’t Brathwaite use it to eat a food???

@Jumpstart

Well said....

… but ummmmm….jumps

Brian Lara said in his recent book that it was the best thing that happened to him because he wasn’t ready.

@TanteMerle

Truth be told - nuff jealousy prevailed.

add bad mind to dat too.

Brian was treated very badly.

I believe that our commentators try to be positive and

not mention too much controversy.

Carlos was correct in saying that being around the top class setup is good for youths.

I believe that Carlos knows about Lara's mistreatment by Viv et al.

He probably/definitely used a poor example,

in that Lara's mistreatment was probably one of the reasons he did not perform to the best of his ability.

Lars did not give of his best.

Had Lara gave his best, he would have scored hundreds more runs.

Yes while it's good to have youths exposed to the top class environment,

the seniors should treat them respectfully,

and set good examples.

Mentors/ambassadors must behave respectful

Viv et al drank too much, hang out to much and disrespected youths.

1. We saw the effects in the 'Mound' incident at Sabina.
2. We saw the effect with Lara missing tours for carnival.
3. We saw the effect with the windies team partying till 5 o'clock in Bim on test nights,
4. while the opponents Ozzies had a curfew and were waking at that time to exercise on the beach,
5. during that test in Bim, a hangover was blamed on chicken pox, which lasted 1 day.
6. We saw the windies core were now going to the hotel to rest after partying all night.
7. Enuff of the controversial issues.

..

Now while partying and hanging out worked for the older generation,

I opine that this generation need to concentrate on diet, exercise, rest, and honing their craft.

Youth today are not built like the older generation.

Youth today have more games to play than the older generation, which puts a strain on their bodies;

hence the frequent injuries.

Youth today are mentally and physically weaker than before.

Youth today drive everywhere they go, as opposed to older generation who walked miles weekly.

Youth today are playing with monies as their main motivation.

Pride of playing for country and territory is overcome by money.

So please understand that Carlos was correct in his aim

of stating that players introduction to the highest level environment is beneficial.

I believe that he erred in using Lara as an example.

Lara was mistreated Viv and the other seniors around.

Viv felt threatened by Lara obvious class.

A better man would have groomed Lara and proudly claimed his mentorship when Lara flourished.

MY 2 Cents.

@Halliwell

truth is lara could say what he wants. he probably didn't want to outright attack viv because he(viv) still remains an enormously popular figure in places like england and india(you saw how cyrus last year called viv his god on his podcast) and outright confrontation( like the tone of the Kevin Pietersen autobiography)would have created unnecessary controversy and and the type of hit pieces that were directed at him throughout the 2000s. anybody who was there or knows somebody who was there in the 90s knows exactly what went on. As lara wrote in his first autobiography, it was the most miserable time of his life

@Jumpstart

Yes bro,

Lara, Hooper and all the players who were subjected to disrespect from seniors.

keep most of this to themselves.

Remember that some of these past players still have influence

and like any cartel, they can negatively impact one's livelihood today.

Some of these players are dependent on commentary stints, and other

guess appearance to make monies today.

@TanteMerle

which is exactly my point. you expose them to international cricket in a high performing environment. As i told VOT's relative in propaganda sudden, tendulkar 's first hundred came on his 2nd series ever....in england. on that tour, both azharuddin and ravi shastri scored two hundreds each and averaged over 70 in a team captained by a GOAT player in Kapil Dev, who also scored a hundred. so there wasn't any pressure on tendulkar to be the main man and he also knew his place in the side. as a result of that environment, tendulkar was a lot more grounded than lara because he grew up in a nurturing environment. lara on the other hand became a regular when west indian batting was in crisis....he was the main man from that first test in 1992, to the last in 2006. that can't do anything good for your development as a player

@Jumpstart

Facts bro.

👍

None of what is being bruited about wrt Lara being treated unfairly makes contact with what Carlos said in that excerpt

simply put, what the posters immediately above are revealing, are matters not in issue

Jumps if you say that Brian lying to protect Viv then you will have to take win. I can’t argue with that.

it’s your word against Brian’s, after Brian’s lifetime of reflection

@Halliwell

Why on earth would Lara want to defend viv? viv still has a dedicated fan base in places like India and England, and certainly in England there are quite a few people who have written very negative articles about Lara, like John Rawlings, who said Lara was dragging down the WI six months after he won the ICC champions trophy and Scyld Berry, who was one of the first to claim that Lara’s 400 was selfish and that he couldn’t watch it. Scyld Berry is a massive fan of viv Richards and I’d argue more so than Lara. If Lara, were to take on a retaliatory tone bordering on confrontation, then his book would end up just like Kevin Pietersen’s autobiography, full of controversy, easy topics for journalists to pick up and scandalize and totally distracting from the theme and context of the book. And Lara would have been aware of that after his entire MCC spirit lecture was reduced to the two minutes he spent calling out the champion West Indies squads for not displaying the sportsmanship the WI is usually associated with at times. He would have been aware of that and the editor of Wisden, who worked on the book with him would have been aware of that, and the purpose wasn’t to talk about his troubles on the 1991 tour, it was his view of the England series in his time as a player

and the reason I can say Lara can say what he wants is because Lara’s first innings was against an all time great attack, containing wasim akram, waqar younis, Imran and Abdul Qadir and he scored 44 on debut. How do you go from scoring 44 against an attack full of future ICC hall of famers( all four) to not being ready against Phil de Freitas, Derek Pringle and Steve Watkin?