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Sammy was a good leader but his lack of application with the bat meant he always unbalanced the team because a real batsman or bowler always had to left out. His bowling was never going to be able to consistently threaten international batsmen but he has enough talent with the bat to be to WI what Steve Smith of Shane Watson is to Aus.

It looks like Holder has realized this about himself, he is a talented bowler but with average pace his options are limited. lets hope this is one of many to come. Well played

In reply to DarkLightning

Holder got his pace up to 187 in this test match. It is only a matter of time when his kinks are worked out and he consistently bowls at around that pace. He could be the right handed Morkel in the making and a solid batsman as well.

In reply to mikelegend

187? WOW
Speed of light territory....no man has gone before..l

In reply to DarkLightning

For a moment I thought you were making reference to their maiden (and only) test ton against the same opposition, Hingland.

That's the only thing the two have in common.

In reply to Drapsey
Concur

Holder looks like a real batsman
Sammy is just a hopeful yamlicka

In reply to FanAttick

Let it be a typo error --187? miles or kilos?

187 ? really


In the commentary on cricinfo I am seeing 87 mph in the 1st innings and 82 mph in the second innings

In reply to DarkLightning

ok..both men got put into leadership positions...somewhat unexpectedly.

both have tons against England.

Both have very good attitudes about Team and being positive.

While Sammy had the stain of the political HHG behind him...One senses that Holder despite his age and very green first class experience has more support than Sammy got.

Sammy actually crossed my mind yesterday and I was wondering if he would have enjoyed being a part of yesterdays fight...but lets not open that can again.

In reply to powen001

If he was there Blackwood probably would not have been.

So it was for the best...

In reply to powen001

Bro, anyone can see the difference between the two.
Holder got Carted around, yet he still fought fire with fire.
Sammy was a part-timer

In reply to powen001

If Sammy too his batting more seriously he may still be captain and the team maybe could have been better. He basically took a bowler and a batsman out of the team just by being there. I remember the innings after he finally got his 100 he's swiping and attempting unnecessary uppercuts as if it was a T20. He has more than enough talent to have 10-15 Test 100's by now but he (or team management) made him a bowler 1st.

In reply to DarkLightning

Really?

In reply to Cornfused

187..half kilometers per hour...

Sammy was better than his record indicate, I have seem players with less skill do better, but Sammy did not seem to work on his game hard enough. Someone like him, who was a good hitter of the ball should of been a more consistent scorer. Someone like him, with his height and strength should of been a quicker bowler.

In reply to black

You have Sammy alert program on your PC?

Just asking.

In reply to dayne

Sammy was a quicker bowler as a youngster until he was injured.

In reply to voiceofreason

Quote from DarkLightning

Not even you believe that garbage

In reply to voiceofreason

Really?

In reply to black
He actually was a tad quicker. Same with Bravo who dropped in pace. Holder has basically replaced Dwayne since he became the captain of the ODI team at Bravo's expense not Sammy's. Holders place in the Test team comes as Lloyds replacement for Russell whom Lloyd had visions of bring the complete Test allrounder. Also it seems many of you have short memories - Holder had very good U19 and U21 scores of 50 plus and as he himself explained he started out as batsman who can bowl, hence his ongoing development in the bowling department.

Stop trying to make this a Holder vs Sammy issue rather than a Holder vs West Indies Allrounder void one. One which neither Bravo,Sammy or Russell seemed willing to seriously fill. Heck even Lara scolded Bravo for not taking his batting more seriously and many say the same about Russell.
Incidentally Blackwood is where Pollard wished to be except Blackwood seems to have learned to railor his aggression to suit Test moments.

In reply to black

Look at Steve Smith and Shane Watson and you can't tell me they have more natural talent with the bat than Sammy (same way Warner isn't necessarily more talented than Barath or even Dwayne Smith) but they have the benefit of a better organized system to come up in and they obviously worked out that they had to contribute with the bat to even play. Watson used to be quick then kept breaking his back, went away and has since become a reliable batsman. Steve Smith the same, I don't even see him bowl for Oz anymore. I use Oz as an example because they always manage to maximize even limited talent whereas WI seem to do the opposite and minimize great talent.

In reply to DarkLightning

Smith always had better batting skills than Sammy, Watson can be compsted to both Pollard and Bravo rather than Dw Smith who started out as a Test batting hopeful