Kallis better than Sobers?

That’s what the numbers say but is he really?

In reply to allan

No. Just the most worthy no.2. A fine cricketer of the top order.

In reply to allan

hell no. kallis can't even tie Imran's shoes as an allrounder of impact. kallis struggled against the best attack of his era: Australia between 199-2007. three hundreds in ten years. compare that with lara and tendulkar. lara scored 8 in the period 1995-2007(would have been twice that is not for biased umpiring),tendulkar has 5 between 1995 and 2007. the best attack of sobers' day would have been australia again and he had four against them, one being against the father of modern fast bowling, Dennis lillee in a series in which he was scarring the daylights out of sobers' ROW team. kallis, as i've said on this thread is overrated. does not mean he wasn't great but greatness has levels and examination of one stat would not be adequate in coming up with a conclusion

In reply to Jumpstart

You really have time on your hand bro.

simple answer. 20 yrs from now who will people talk about Sobers or Kallis?

In reply to allan

Uncovered pitched... least body saving equipments...no rules of bouncers...not to mention unfiltered condition of ball...
Vs
Covered pitches....head to toe protected...only two bouncers....ball under constant surveillance of umpires...

That's only relating to rules....other factors...jumpy already put forth

In reply to WI_cricfan

They will look at the stats and decide .....

By every statistical measure, there is no comparison.

You won’t convince any West Indian fan that Kallis was anywhere near Sobers as a player though.

In reply to imusic

geoff boycott has a better average than gordon greenidge. i don't think anybody would argue that boycott is better than greenidge. kallis isn't even as impactful as imran khan niazi

In reply to WI_cricfan

20 years from now?

Dude that's already happening... if you do an online poll on cricinfo or so asking who is the better all-rounder the majority will say Kallis.

I wasn't around to see Sobers play so I can't say who is better. But the best all-rounder since I started watching/following cricket is Kallis.

In reply to Jumpstart

Define “impactful”

In reply to imusic

winning tests....winning series.....look at imran's bowling average versus the best performers of his era:west indies.... 80 wickets@21. As a result, the west indies never beat a team captained by imran in a test series.....that's three series. When imran left, pakistan were battered by the weakest west indian side they would have faced in 15 years(save lara, haynes, ambrose,bishop and walsh). Kallis played australia four times between 1996 and 2006.....they lost all and that is largely because they never scored enough runs to push the aussies into an uncomfortable position. It wasn't the bowling because they had two ICC hall of famers in their ranks:donald and pollock. that is what i mean by impactful. his influence against the best team of the majority of his career(australia 1995-2007) was negligible in terms of impact. if you're talking about batting, Lara has a series against the best team of his era where he basically dictated terms and how Australia would play for the entire series by simply his using his bat. Sachin Tendulkar had a similar series the year prior(although metronome mcgrath was missing from that series and he was a lot more comfortable on indian wickets and indian batsmen than warne). Jacques Kallis does not have that. It does not mean kallis is not a great cricketer, but as you know, there are levels to greatness

In reply to Jumpstart

So then would you say that Lara was impactful?

In reply to anthonyp

I understand. When you can see if you can find some videos of Sobers.
They will give you some idea of the man's prowess .

Sorry ,I did not have videos of Headley and Bradman to compare.
But such is life,we all could not be born and share same decades

In reply to Kay

lara was more than impactful. take lara's 500+@90 runs out of the 1999 series and the WI lose every test with not one going into the final day. Take lara's 277 out of the frank worrell trophy in 1992 and again, the west indies lose their unbeaten run, a fact acknowledged by Wisden, who as you know, were no fans of the WI, criticizing their play all throughout the 80s

wisden

brian lara was a player of the highest impact level. teams knew once you got him the game was done and i believe that contributed to the amount of poor decisions he got. his impact lessened in the 2000s because the bowling after walsh and ambrose and until jerome taylor was atrocious

In reply to hubert

no but there are standards throughout......nobody with a fully functional brain, for example, would say that jay z is better than miles davis simply because he sold more records. similarly, kallis has better stats than sobers but nobody would argue that kallis changed cricket. its acknowledged globally that sobers changed cricket. imran khan changed cricket

In reply to Jumpstart

But you define impactful as winning tests and winning series. What is Lara's win/loss ratio?

In reply to Kay

read my post carefully homes and you'll find the answer....i also defined it as winning test matches. the last time a west indian team beat a number 1 ranked side in more that two tests in a series, Brian Charles Lara played the central role. he was undoubtedly the protagonist. brian lara was never whitwashed at home by an australian test team. kallis' side endured that indignity in 2006. kallis was powerless to stop it

Have to repeat here again. Sobers missed only 1 series between 1954 and 1974 when he retired.
By then he was the highest run-scorer in tests
Owned the highest test tons scored by an individual
Certainly top 5 for number of catches
in top 10 for # of test wickets and perhaps batting average at the time.
But his true measure was proven in Rest of World Series vs. England and Oz where he outperformed his contemporaries sometimes by miles.
NB Those series were near the end of his career. They like Viv and other WSC greats are not part of his test career stats which would only improve them.

In reply to Brerzerk

not to mention sobers was an attacking batsman who still managed to average close to 60. in that respect, he is in a league of his own. kallis made a bus load of runs at an SR of 45(lower than tendulkar at about 55 and lara at 60 .....now who was really going to watch that or buy tickets to see that? kallis was boring.

In reply to Jumpstart

Truth be told, we run this gauntlet with Kallis and Garry every 6 months…

Music ent win yet

In reply to Jumpstart


Those are stats.

By any statistical measure……there is no comparison

In reply to imusic

if you say so boss

In reply to Jumpstart


Subjective at best. Biased at worst.

You have your opinion and no opposing argument will change it……as is your right

In reply to Jumpstart


You’ll get no argument from me or most people in that regard.

But that wasn’t the topic