debut: 11/14/02
201,984 runs
Tearing Sammy a new one re insularity
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Duj is on Mason’s programme now
debut: 11/13/02
80,592 runs
In reply to Chrissy
Kieran Powell made an interesting statement about Jason Holder, essentially saying he’s at the end of his career
Kieran Powell made an interesting statement about Jason Holder, essentially saying he’s at the end of his career
debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to Chrissy
listening.....bajans myopia legendary....but its an interesting program. The callers are right about the lack of discipline is a mirror of the lack of discipline in the wider Caribbean society. that is the legacy of broken families and an invasion of the destructive sections of foreign culture. Its not by chance the west indies were dominating when Caribbean culture was at its height(literature, music, the arts etc). But i guess that you can all link that cultural decline to the structural adjustment programs of the 1980s
listening.....bajans myopia legendary....but its an interesting program. The callers are right about the lack of discipline is a mirror of the lack of discipline in the wider Caribbean society. that is the legacy of broken families and an invasion of the destructive sections of foreign culture. Its not by chance the west indies were dominating when Caribbean culture was at its height(literature, music, the arts etc). But i guess that you can all link that cultural decline to the structural adjustment programs of the 1980s
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debut: 11/11/24
218 runs
In reply to Chrissy
You are very hateful and a yesterday woman, you are bitter and full of hate. You are the one who called Otis Gibson, Sammy and Julian Hunte Black and ulgly. You are very hateful, and wicked. Thanks to google, you are also now useless .
You are very hateful and a yesterday woman, you are bitter and full of hate. You are the one who called Otis Gibson, Sammy and Julian Hunte Black and ulgly. You are very hateful, and wicked. Thanks to google, you are also now useless .
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debut: 6/12/04
18,524 runs
In reply to Edrich
I have to correct you, the Dr. never called the group ugly, or Sammy and Otis names. But to my recollection she never called out the mob for calling Otis and Sammy names.
I have to correct you, the Dr. never called the group ugly, or Sammy and Otis names. But to my recollection she never called out the mob for calling Otis and Sammy names.
debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to tc1
sammy and co deserved to have their names erased from WI cricket history if we ever get out of this mess. their contribution was destructive on a grand scale
sammy and co deserved to have their names erased from WI cricket history if we ever get out of this mess. their contribution was destructive on a grand scale
debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to Edrich
dude stop projecting your insecurity or worse, your racism
You are very hateful and a yesterday woman, you are bitter and full of hate. You are the one who called Otis Gibson, Sammy and Julian Hunte Black and ulgly. You are very hateful, and wicked. Thanks to google, you are also now useless .
dude stop projecting your insecurity or worse, your racism
debut: 6/12/04
18,524 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Sammy as captain won 2 WC, give him his flowers and move on, he may not have been the most talented player, but as I told my friends 3 week ago, give him his credit.
Sammy as captain won 2 WC, give him his flowers and move on, he may not have been the most talented player, but as I told my friends 3 week ago, give him his credit.
debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to tc1
my grandmother whose funeral was four days before the final could have captained that side from the grave. He had the template created by the father of t20 Captains, Daren Ganga and btwice he had the bulk of the trinidad team that won 3 CT20s in a row plus a Champions League runners up medal(beating the IPL champions on the way) and changed the way t20 is played globally, plus the best t20 batsman in history, plus one of the most talented batsmen in history who for once was focused. you don't need anything else to win a title. Sammy was all but an appendage on those two wins. His contributions in the one tournament we lost were more significant
my grandmother whose funeral was four days before the final could have captained that side from the grave. He had the template created by the father of t20 Captains, Daren Ganga and btwice he had the bulk of the trinidad team that won 3 CT20s in a row plus a Champions League runners up medal(beating the IPL champions on the way) and changed the way t20 is played globally, plus the best t20 batsman in history, plus one of the most talented batsmen in history who for once was focused. you don't need anything else to win a title. Sammy was all but an appendage on those two wins. His contributions in the one tournament we lost were more significant
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debut: 12/18/02
18,141 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Sammy was all but an appendage on those two wins. my grandmother..... could have captained that side......
Again, lest we forget, his contribution was a grand total of 8 runs and 1 wicket for the entire tournament! (on par with his contribution in this ongoing fiasco!)
But he did spin the toss and clap, which I imagine had a greater impact than Marlon Samuels' twin MVP performances in securing those 2 World Cup titles.
According to his apologists, The Golden Child should be absolved of all responsibility for these combined 8-straight defeats, ostensibly, because the unqualified coach was "not the one on the field batting & bowling"!
Isn't it curious that these same apologists have no qualms with crediting him with those 2 World Cup titles even though,as a passenger on the team, "he was not the one on the field batting & bowling"?
Sammy was all but an appendage on those two wins. my grandmother..... could have captained that side......
Again, lest we forget, his contribution was a grand total of 8 runs and 1 wicket for the entire tournament! (on par with his contribution in this ongoing fiasco!)
But he did spin the toss and clap, which I imagine had a greater impact than Marlon Samuels' twin MVP performances in securing those 2 World Cup titles.
According to his apologists, The Golden Child should be absolved of all responsibility for these combined 8-straight defeats, ostensibly, because the unqualified coach was "not the one on the field batting & bowling"!
Isn't it curious that these same apologists have no qualms with crediting him with those 2 World Cup titles even though,as a passenger on the team, "he was not the one on the field batting & bowling"?
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debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to jacksprat
exactly. getting on as if gayle, bravo and co who were seasoned professionals both as west indian cricketrs and t20 league players needed guidance like if they were rookies. the only inexperienced player who got game time during that series was RTN. The rest of the cast was virtually the equivalent of the 92 dream team:gayle, bravo, simmons, samuels, badree, suleman benn, dre rus, spice man, ramdin, charles....10/11ths of the final xi for all the games knew what is was like to play in and/or win a world cup. not to mention gayle, bravo and jerome taylor already had world cup finals experience because in gayle and bravo's case, this would be their third world title and fourth icc final, and taylor was a key member of the squad that stormed into the 2006 champions trophy final before underestimating australia. it was a team with a vast amount of championship experience
exactly. getting on as if gayle, bravo and co who were seasoned professionals both as west indian cricketrs and t20 league players needed guidance like if they were rookies. the only inexperienced player who got game time during that series was RTN. The rest of the cast was virtually the equivalent of the 92 dream team:gayle, bravo, simmons, samuels, badree, suleman benn, dre rus, spice man, ramdin, charles....10/11ths of the final xi for all the games knew what is was like to play in and/or win a world cup. not to mention gayle, bravo and jerome taylor already had world cup finals experience because in gayle and bravo's case, this would be their third world title and fourth icc final, and taylor was a key member of the squad that stormed into the 2006 champions trophy final before underestimating australia. it was a team with a vast amount of championship experience
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debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to Chrissy
If sammy had a toots squad like maradona in 86 and won the tournament through brilliance and force of character, I would be the first to give him his flowers. but we all know, in 2012 he was the face of officialdom in a squad full of people the board considered rebels and mercenaries. In 2016 he was virtually only the team spokesman. When cricinfo wrote that article in 2017 about our t20 success, his role in the squad is mentioned minimally. They itemize the success of the team down to firstly Stanford, Gayle's once in a lifetime dominance of the format and the rise of Trinidad and Tobago as a global t20 power.
If sammy had a toots squad like maradona in 86 and won the tournament through brilliance and force of character, I would be the first to give him his flowers. but we all know, in 2012 he was the face of officialdom in a squad full of people the board considered rebels and mercenaries. In 2016 he was virtually only the team spokesman. When cricinfo wrote that article in 2017 about our t20 success, his role in the squad is mentioned minimally. They itemize the success of the team down to firstly Stanford, Gayle's once in a lifetime dominance of the format and the rise of Trinidad and Tobago as a global t20 power.
debut: 11/30/17
12,509 runs
In reply to jacksprat
as we are at it...look at the purest distillation of the legacy of Julian Hunte and his band of morons
A quote from Darren Ganga during the 2009 Champions League
Cozier on the 2009 red force team
And 2009 was supposed to and started as the year that Gayle and Sarwan-led the revival would go into overdrive. The team was building since 2007: drawing a series we were widely expected to lose against an ace sri lanka team containing their greatest players, Winning our first test match in SA at the start of the series, not losing for the first time in NZ in 13 years(chanderpaul and gayle scoring hundreds and fidel taking career best figures) and then the Wisden Trophy win against an england team that would win the ashes 3 months after their loss to us....and in a stroke of mind numbing idiocy, that progress and momentum was lost. If that foolishness with the England return tour that was not on the schedule had not happened, it is very possible the West Indies could have won both the wt20 that year and the Australia series, which we were unfortunate not to tie because of poor umpiring. 2009 could have and should have been the year where the West Indies reestablished itself as one of the preeminent cricketing powers and a side to e genuinely feared and dreaded. we were on the cusp of it
as we are at it...look at the purest distillation of the legacy of Julian Hunte and his band of morons
A quote from Darren Ganga during the 2009 Champions League
s impressively composed off the field as on it, Daren Ganga has made a few significant and obviously deliberate points as his amazing Trinidad & Tobago (T&T) team has overcome one supposedly superior opponent after another on their way to the semi-finals of the high-profile Champions League Twenty20 in India.
Even before a ball was bowled, Ganga stressed that, though their outfits would be red, white and black and the Trinidad & Tobago Cricket Board (TTCB) crest would adorn their shirts, they were there as West Indies champions.
"We're not just representing T&T, but the entire West Indian public and cricketing fraternity know that we're here representing them as well," he told Cricinfo. "This is virtually a West Indian team representing the entire region. As much as we want to do well for T&T, we have a bigger role in terms of representing the entire West Indies."
It is a mantra he has repeated at the presentation ceremony following every stunning triumph.
"This is for the people of Trinidad and Tobago and, by extension, the West Indies," he said after the gripping last-ball victory over the Deccan Chargers, the IPL champions, no less, with formidable names like Adam Gilchrist, VVS Laxman, Andrew Symonds, Scott Styris, RP Singh and Fidel Edwards in their ranks.
And, in case anyone missed his purpose, he added: "...especially with the crap in West Indies cricket."
Ganga has witnessed at first hand how the divisions between the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) and the West Indies Players' Association (WIPA), and within the WICB itself, have crippled West Indies cricket.
Even before a ball was bowled, Ganga stressed that, though their outfits would be red, white and black and the Trinidad & Tobago Cricket Board (TTCB) crest would adorn their shirts, they were there as West Indies champions.
"We're not just representing T&T, but the entire West Indian public and cricketing fraternity know that we're here representing them as well," he told Cricinfo. "This is virtually a West Indian team representing the entire region. As much as we want to do well for T&T, we have a bigger role in terms of representing the entire West Indies."
It is a mantra he has repeated at the presentation ceremony following every stunning triumph.
"This is for the people of Trinidad and Tobago and, by extension, the West Indies," he said after the gripping last-ball victory over the Deccan Chargers, the IPL champions, no less, with formidable names like Adam Gilchrist, VVS Laxman, Andrew Symonds, Scott Styris, RP Singh and Fidel Edwards in their ranks.
And, in case anyone missed his purpose, he added: "...especially with the crap in West Indies cricket."
Ganga has witnessed at first hand how the divisions between the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) and the West Indies Players' Association (WIPA), and within the WICB itself, have crippled West Indies cricket.
Cozier on the 2009 red force team
And 2009 was supposed to and started as the year that Gayle and Sarwan-led the revival would go into overdrive. The team was building since 2007: drawing a series we were widely expected to lose against an ace sri lanka team containing their greatest players, Winning our first test match in SA at the start of the series, not losing for the first time in NZ in 13 years(chanderpaul and gayle scoring hundreds and fidel taking career best figures) and then the Wisden Trophy win against an england team that would win the ashes 3 months after their loss to us....and in a stroke of mind numbing idiocy, that progress and momentum was lost. If that foolishness with the England return tour that was not on the schedule had not happened, it is very possible the West Indies could have won both the wt20 that year and the Australia series, which we were unfortunate not to tie because of poor umpiring. 2009 could have and should have been the year where the West Indies reestablished itself as one of the preeminent cricketing powers and a side to e genuinely feared and dreaded. we were on the cusp of it
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debut: 1/30/09
1,952 runs
In reply to Jumpstart
Absolutely correct Jumpstart!
With regards to the test team:
2009 was the year that we had a pretty settled test team that was consistently making 300+ scores and challenging the best teams in the world. The batting was led by the big 3: Gayle, Sarwan, and Chanderpaul - the three men of power to hold the key to a successful batting innings. Take out this triumvirate early in an innings and you could well dismiss the team for 150 or less. But in 2009, a dependable supporting act was galvanising outside of the big 3, notably through the steely lower middle order batsmen of Brendan Nash, Denesh Ramdin, Jerome Taylor, and in Australia, Dwayne Bravo and Narsingh Deonarine. These understudies were able to resurrect an innings if 1, 2 or all of the big 3 had failed or were absent. They had the ability to score 50s or even 100s and build on the foundation laid by the top order. The bowling attack was the weakest aspect. We were short of two reliable seamers to support Taylor (Edwards, Best, and Powell too inconsistent...Roach's successes came later and Rampaul had fitness issues) and we were missing a world class spinner (Shillngford showed glimpses from 2010 but had issues with his action). The other major gap would have been finding an opening partner to support Gayle (Brathwaite didn't debut until 2011 and Barath had failed after his debut century at the Gabba). If the core of the team was allowed to remain the same between 2007 and 2012, West Indies test cricket may have seen different results in the 2010s, with guys like Samuels and Darren Bravo showing promise at number 4. With Sammy taking over in 2010, the whole balance of the team shifted. Gayle and eventually Sarwan were shunted from the team by 2011. When Gayle was brought back in 2012, Sarwan was ignored. So, the triumvirate of Gayle-Sarwan-Chanderpaul was no longer in existence - the last time these three played together in test cricket was in Australia 2009 - hence the team struggled ever since.
With regards to the T20 success of 2012 and 2016:
The blueprints were indeed provided by Daren Ganga's pioneering T20 teams of 2007 to 2009, which culminated in that Champions Trophy final. He was the tactical mind behind those victories, and at his disposal, he had Kieron Pollard, Sunil Narine, and Dwayne Bravo, who would go on to become three of the best all rounders T20 cricket has ever seen. Trinidad and Tobago's successes would then be translated into the West Indies successes of 2012. Throw in the other two all time greats - the Universe Boss and Dre Russ - then you have the core of the band. The supporting cast of Jonno, Spice man, Simmons, Ramdin, Rampaul, Badree, and of course MVP Samuels, were all also instrumental and played their part in WI lifting that first trophy in 2012. Sammy was just there for the ride, and to clap and toss coin. Sammy proved to be more useful in the role as finisher in the 2014 T20 world cup. 2016 West Indies came with slightly less reputation as a world class unit, with Pollard and Narine missing the tournament, but the reliability was still there in Gayle, Russell, Bravo, Simmons, and Samuels. RTN added the finishing touches and Sammy wasn't needed.
Absolutely correct Jumpstart!
With regards to the test team:
2009 was the year that we had a pretty settled test team that was consistently making 300+ scores and challenging the best teams in the world. The batting was led by the big 3: Gayle, Sarwan, and Chanderpaul - the three men of power to hold the key to a successful batting innings. Take out this triumvirate early in an innings and you could well dismiss the team for 150 or less. But in 2009, a dependable supporting act was galvanising outside of the big 3, notably through the steely lower middle order batsmen of Brendan Nash, Denesh Ramdin, Jerome Taylor, and in Australia, Dwayne Bravo and Narsingh Deonarine. These understudies were able to resurrect an innings if 1, 2 or all of the big 3 had failed or were absent. They had the ability to score 50s or even 100s and build on the foundation laid by the top order. The bowling attack was the weakest aspect. We were short of two reliable seamers to support Taylor (Edwards, Best, and Powell too inconsistent...Roach's successes came later and Rampaul had fitness issues) and we were missing a world class spinner (Shillngford showed glimpses from 2010 but had issues with his action). The other major gap would have been finding an opening partner to support Gayle (Brathwaite didn't debut until 2011 and Barath had failed after his debut century at the Gabba). If the core of the team was allowed to remain the same between 2007 and 2012, West Indies test cricket may have seen different results in the 2010s, with guys like Samuels and Darren Bravo showing promise at number 4. With Sammy taking over in 2010, the whole balance of the team shifted. Gayle and eventually Sarwan were shunted from the team by 2011. When Gayle was brought back in 2012, Sarwan was ignored. So, the triumvirate of Gayle-Sarwan-Chanderpaul was no longer in existence - the last time these three played together in test cricket was in Australia 2009 - hence the team struggled ever since.
With regards to the T20 success of 2012 and 2016:
The blueprints were indeed provided by Daren Ganga's pioneering T20 teams of 2007 to 2009, which culminated in that Champions Trophy final. He was the tactical mind behind those victories, and at his disposal, he had Kieron Pollard, Sunil Narine, and Dwayne Bravo, who would go on to become three of the best all rounders T20 cricket has ever seen. Trinidad and Tobago's successes would then be translated into the West Indies successes of 2012. Throw in the other two all time greats - the Universe Boss and Dre Russ - then you have the core of the band. The supporting cast of Jonno, Spice man, Simmons, Ramdin, Rampaul, Badree, and of course MVP Samuels, were all also instrumental and played their part in WI lifting that first trophy in 2012. Sammy was just there for the ride, and to clap and toss coin. Sammy proved to be more useful in the role as finisher in the 2014 T20 world cup. 2016 West Indies came with slightly less reputation as a world class unit, with Pollard and Narine missing the tournament, but the reliability was still there in Gayle, Russell, Bravo, Simmons, and Samuels. RTN added the finishing touches and Sammy wasn't needed.
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